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Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Printable Version

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Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Antonius Congianocus - 01-26-2006

Hello,

Here is an interesting painting from the 2nd Century AD, painted in Roman Egypt.

Although worn by a young boy, the tunic has two vertical Equestrian style stripes (Calvi) however; what is fascinating is the intricate detail around the neck. This is a feature we rarely see in re-creation.

Who feels this type of intricate detail around the neck would be acceptable in re-creation?

Here’s a direct link from www.metmuseum.org with all the details:
[url:kzf8gj7i]http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_Of_Art/print/viewOnePrint.asp?item=18.9.2&dep=10&viewMode=0&section=description[/url]

Thanks,
Anthony

[Image: eg18.9.2.R.jpg]

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Robert Vermaat - 01-26-2006

Isn't that writing of some sort?

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Carlton Bach - 01-26-2006

Are you sure those are equestrian clavi? Stripes seem to have been very common on tunics of all kinds, and while the Romans probably could distinguish between the 'real thing' and mere decor, I don't think we can with any certainty.

I'd say see if you can figure out what the decoration *is*, and then use it if you think it fits. BUt keep inj mind that it may be regional fashion (our evidence is so bad for much of the Empire we probably wouldn't know one way or the other, but I am suspicious of the habit of treating Egypt as an 'odd one out' archeologically) and, more imporetantly, that the 'mummy portraits' tend to show people dressed the way they wished they had been, not necessarily the way they were on a day-to-day basis. Otherwise, prom pictures could lead one to reconstruct 20th century high school life rather interestingly...

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Peroni - 01-26-2006

The website itself tells us of the detail on the collar..

"The inscription in dark purple pigment below the neckline of the tunic is in Greek, which was the common language of the eastern Mediterranean at the time. Scholars do not completely agree on the inscription's translation. The boy's name ("Eutyches, freedman of Kasanios") seems indisputable; then follows either "son of Herakleides Evandros" or "Herakleides, son of Evandros." It is also unclear whether the "I signed" at the end of the inscription refers to the painter of the portrait or to the manumission (act of freeing a slave) that would have been witnessed by Herakleides or Evandros. An artist's signature would be unique in mummy portraits."

Regards,

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Antonius Congianocus - 01-26-2006

Hello,

Come on guys… you’re supposed to be Roman Solders! Big Grin

Over 50 people have looked at the photo but only three had the courage to actually vote? :oops:

Remember, the poll is anonymous, no one is going to trash you for your opinion. :wink:

Just a side note, what I meant by "the tunic has two vertical Equestrian style stripes" was to compare that particular aspect of the tunic, is typical of the style we’ve grown accustom to seeing, where as the detail under the neck was rather unique and something I had not seen before.

I'm also now wondering if the artist just wrote on the painting afterwards or if the tunic originally had words on it??? It would be an odd place to write notes on, from an artisitc point of view.

Thanks,
Anthony

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - aitor iriarte - 01-26-2006

I don't think that the writing existed on the 'actual' tunic worn by the child. It was just a sort of wittingly added information by the painter...

Aitor

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Martin Moser - 01-27-2006

Quote:Come on guys… you’re supposed to be Roman Solders!

Ok, here you go :-) )
FWIW I voted "no" because I think the wrinting is on the *painting*, not on the tunic ...

cheers

Martin

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 01-27-2006

I agree with Aitor and Martin.

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Matt Lukes - 01-27-2006

I suppose it could be the ancient equivalent of your Mom sewing your name in your underwear... :lol: Seriously, I would tend to agree that it seems more likely just for the painting- it doesn't really make sense to me that even a child would have his name, etc. written on his clothing- he'd know that and be able to tell anyone who asked, yes? Ancient Egyptian mummy coffins and sarcophagi always had the person's name on them in some form or other- it seems to make sense that later when portraits were painted on, that name, etc. could also be so- and this artist decided to incorporate it in a very interesting way. Even if it were really there on this child's clothing, would a portrait artist include it? Perhaps if it were a very common thing, but I'd think then it'd be known from more than this one single example...

Matt

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Robert Vermaat - 01-28-2006

Quote:I suppose it could be the ancient equivalent of your Mom sewing your name in your underwear... :lol:

Your name and the day to wear it, hee hee Big Grin

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Antonius Congianocus - 01-29-2006

Quote:I suppose it could be the ancient equivalent of your Mom sewing your name in your underwear

Funny however; actually very interesting idea. Idea

From an artistic point of view adding information writing onto a tunic is not very ‘artistic’, especially if the concept is to create as an exact portrait as possible.

I’d still lean toward the writing was actually on the tunic and not added afterwards; as the museum experts noted, an artist signing his work would be very unusual.

Also, after re-reading the article, the concept of a ceremonial tunic being worn by a boy, perhaps shortly after a “manumission witnessed by Herakleides or Evandrosâ€ÂÂ

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Robert Vermaat - 01-29-2006

There's a zoom function on the online page. But even with that I'm not sure which came first- the writing on the tunic or the wrtiting on the painting.

But even so, how easy would it be to write on a linen tunic? It must have been painted and even then, very prone to damage. It would hardly make sense to enter proof of his manumission on fabric and not on some less perishable material!

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - Tiberio - 01-29-2006

Hmm first of all not all are
Quote:Come on guys… you’re supposed to be Roman Solders!
there are also people doing only civilian display!
:roll:
Secondly a reconstruction based on one painting which can be interpreted in various ways is everything but water tight. I would say yes if more evidence shows up with this kind of detail, otherwise I would just see it as a kind of odd-ball to mull about but I wouldn´t use it.
Well thats my 2 cents
Martin

portrait - GaiusAquiliusBritannicus - 02-02-2006

I disagree that it wouldn't make sense to have something written on a recently freed slaves tunic. Think of all of the errands this child was probably sent on and how many people would have known him as a slave. How would the information that he has been just been freed get around? Sure he could carry a parchment or have a ring or some other sign, but this seems just as plausible to me, especially in a large city and especially knowing how kids lose stuff.

Simple chain stitch embroidery has been found on coptic linen tunics dated back to the 3rd century, and this is a very easy stitch and very quick to do and would last as long as the tunic lasted, so I don't believe we should discount the possibility that for special occassions (and overly concerned parents) embroidered names may have been sewn onto a child's garment.

I'm not saying that I agree that the painting does depict this embroidery, just that I'm not discounting the possibility 'out of hand'.

Uale!

Britannicus

Re: Interesting 2nd Century Roman Egyptian Tunic - MAXIMVS - 02-05-2006

If the lad was deaf or mute his parents might think it a good idea to have his details displayed in this way.

A long shot I know ...