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Roman arrows - Caius Titius Verus - 01-18-2006
Hello,
I'm currently working on my first century auxilia archer epression. Now I have some questions on how to construct good and realsitic arrows for the period. I use a scythian bow about 45 # drawweight.
What wood would be best to use for the shafts? Can anyone recommend a "company" that sells ready made shafts? Would 5/16 diameter be ok?
What kind of feathers should I use for fletchings? How long should the fletchings be? Should they be glued on or bound off?
Thanks in advace!
Greetings,
Tom
Re: Roman arrows - Virilis - 01-18-2006
Salve!
I have a Hungarian-style composite recurve bow of 50# draw-weight (unfortunately it is partly made from fiberglass, the bows made by original methods are too expensive).
My bow is from Grozer-Archery ( http://grozerarchery.com/index_ac.htm )
Hungary. They have many variations of arrows and arrowheads and they have a very good customer-service, perhaps you can ask them?
I am shooting a lot when the weather is warmer. Now the temperature is minus 27 and the weather is windy here in Finland so you can understand I am staying inside :wink: ...Perhaps the bodkin-type arrowheads would be fine for you?
I use target-arrowheads beacuse I break and lose many arrows during the shooting-season. I have noticed that it is difficult to shoot with my concesti-type late roman helmet because of the nose quard and cheek-plates(it doesn`t matter if I use the traditional or thumb-release). Some time ago someone said in this forum that you don`t have to shoot so accurately because you usually would have been targeting masses of sodiers. I don`t think this is quite correct. If you are not able to hit man from 50 metres you are not able to hit 15 men from 150-200 metres!
In my opinion late roman sodiers with nasal-quard helmets are not very good archers. Perhaps this is one reason for the the more open byzantine conical helmets without cheekplates and mail/plate armour aventails. It is very comfortable to shoot with my "Varangian" style eastern viking/byzantine helmet (800-1200 AD). Perhaps the syrian archers of the roman army used quite similar helmets (they had quite narrow cheekplates?) for that reason and that might be a continuation as far back as to the assyrian army!?
Sorry that I got carried away from the original subject!
Regards,
Re: Roman arrows - Dan Howard - 01-18-2006
David Sim gives good instructions on how he thinks Roman arrowheads were made - including fire arrows. See Iron for the Eagles pp78-90.
Re: Roman arrows - Caius Titius Verus - 01-20-2006
Thank you both!
Always nice to learn from experiences of other reenactors!
I looked up the constructing of roman arrowheads in Iron for the eagles. Looks very reasonable theorie of making heads, I'll certainly give it a try!
I'll do some experimenting and hope it will work out
Thanks again!
Tom
Re: Roman arrows - Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2006
Quote:I have noticed that it is difficult to shoot with my concesti-type late roman helmet because of the nose quard and cheek-plates(it doesn`t matter if I use the traditional or thumb-release). Some time ago someone said in this forum that you don`t have to shoot so accurately because you usually would have been targeting masses of sodiers. I don`t think this is quite correct. If you are not able to hit man from 50 metres you are not able to hit 15 men from 150-200 metres!
I think that was me
but I said it in reference to throwing missiles like javelins and plumbatae, not shooting arrows from horseback at a target that you can see. Of course, that makes a big difference. However, don't underestimate the use for covering fire. I recall that horse archers were used during battle to shoot over the heads of their infantry comrades in the front line to provide suppressing fire.Quote:In my opinion late roman sodiers with nasal-quard helmets are not very good archers. Perhaps this is one reason for the the more open byzantine conical helmets without cheekplates and mail/plate armour aventails. It is very comfortable to shoot with my "Varangian" style eastern viking/byzantine helmet (800-1200 AD). Perhaps the syrian archers of the roman army used quite similar helmets (they had quite narrow cheekplates?)
I'm sure such helmets would be more comfortable, but I disagree that because of a nasal an archer would shoot bad. Sassanid heavy cavalry were also horse archers (though not of the fast type), even though they had helmets that were as bad for visibility or even worse!
Now that you mention archery - where can someone get good Roman arrowheads?
Re: Roman arrows - Tiberio - 01-22-2006
Hmm I recall Markus Junkelman doing some experiments with late roman mounted archers looked not bad what he did. But as far as I know all his books are in German.
Re: Roman arrows - Virilis - 01-22-2006
Yes, it is in Marcus Junkelmann`s book "Die Reiter Roms" teile III.
I am not very good with my german but in my opinion Junkelmann claims that "Sagittarii, Clibanarii and Cataphracts" used sassanider composite bows. The mongolian "thumb-release" technique was introduced quite late, perhaps from 5th century onwards. They also used to shoot from the right side of the bow! That is due to the fact that in this way it is easier to shoot more arrows in a shorter period of time, perhaps on horseback and the aiming was not so accurate, only the volleys of arrows....
There are also pictures of a late roman re-enactor spanning a composite bow (with traditional release) with the Burgh Castle - style helmet. His right hand is about 10 cm away from his cheek and he is still twisting his head away from the bowstring. That is very unconvincing to my opinion!
It just does not seem plausible that the shooting was done in this way.
Sorry to be so stubborn :wink: , please correct me!!!!!
Regards,
Roman arrows - Aluscladiusmaximus - 01-24-2006
The only roman arrows found come from Duros Europa they were made of reed with a solid wooden foot. The fletchings appear to be half of a 6" feather. There is no sign of binding on the feathers and they were self nocked.
Aulus cladius maximus
Re: Roman arrows - Sassanid - 01-24-2006
Quote:Now that you mention archery - where can someone get good Roman arrowheads?
Robert,
In the past I have used Hector Cole. He will make them to any design you wish. He also does spear heads, butt spikes, javelin heads, and sword blades etc.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... wheads.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... PILHE1.jpg
http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/
Andrew
Re: Roman arrows - Caius Titius Verus - 01-24-2006
I just received some arrowheads from Hector Cole.
He is very quick and I really love the botkins!
Makes several roman designs directly based upon finds from Vindolanda,...
"Aluscladiusmaximus", I was in contact with "Reiner" from traditional archery. He is in the opinion that scythian arrows, and also arrows used during firt century a.d. by the roman army were made of shafts; 6mm diameter at the ends and 8 mm at te middle... This would make their flight more stable. I don't know what his references are however. What's your opinion on this matter?
Best regards,
Tom
Re: Roman arrows - Martin Moser - 01-24-2006
Quote:"Aluscladiusmaximus", I was in contact with "Reiner" from traditional archery. He is in the opinion that scythian arrows, and also arrows used during firt century a.d. by the roman army were made of shafts; 6mm diameter at the ends and 8 mm at te middle... This would make their flight more stable. I don't know what his references are however. What's your opinion on this matter?
Tom,
w/ regard to Roman bows and arrows you might want to read
Coulston, J.C. Roman Archery Equipment. in Bishop, M.C. (Ed.). The Production and Distribution of Roman Military Equipment. BAR International Series 275, 1985. pp 220-366
cheers,
Martin
Re: Roman arrows - Caius Titius Verus - 01-25-2006
Thank you Ummos!
I'll go and search the archeological library here for it, they're bound to have a coupy!
Best regards,
Tom
arrow shafts - Aluscladiusmaximus - 01-30-2006
I know the Turkish had arrows which were not parallel they have better aerodynamic properties and will fly further. I believe they are used in competitions where the winner is the person who can shoot the furthest. I saw some in an antique market in Istanbul. They had a small target head. I am not sure they would be any advantage if you put a heavy war head on the arrow. I think that a tapered shaft wouldn't be strong enough to support a heavy head during loosing and wouldn't drive the head into a target without snapping. I saw some medieval arrows for a 110 lb longbow and they were tapered but they tapered from about 15mm at the head to about 9mm at the foot.
I have not seen anything to suggest the Romans used tapered arrows but that doesn't categorically mean they didn't. I would like to see his references.
The Hector Cole heads are very nice and I may well buy some as I can make bronze heads but apart from tanged bodkins I can't easily make Iron Heads.
Aulus Cladius Maximus
Re: Roman arrows - mpferrell - 11-07-2006
Has anyone any idea where I can find a copy of:
Coulston, J.C. Roman Archery Equipment. in Bishop, M.C. (Ed.). The Production and Distribution of Roman Military Equipment. BAR International Series 275, 1985. pp 220-366
Any help is appreciated.
Re: Roman arrows - jvrjenivs - 11-07-2006
Quote:Has anyone any idea where I can find a copy of:
Coulston, J.C. Roman Archery Equipment. in Bishop, M.C. (Ed.). The Production and Distribution of Roman Military Equipment. BAR International Series 275, 1985. pp 220-366
Any help is appreciated.
I'm also searching for that book for a couple of weeks now. Not found one, but if it helps you, the ISBN is 0860543471.