+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Hoplite Shield Designs (/showthread.php?tid=4345)
Hoplite Shield designs - Paullus Scipio - 07-14-2008
Stefanos wrote:
Quote:Same bull head type except appearing in other pottery elements originating in the North-Eastern Attika appears on coins
....similar 'Bulls-Head' shield designs appear on at least 36 depictions of various sorts, mostly pottery, from Mythical characters such as Hera and Athene and Ares; Herakles and Achilles; Hector, Troilus, Memnon and other Trojans; Amazons and Hoplites fighting Amazons; on Corinthian plaques, and so-called 'Boeotian' shields; and from places as far apart as Southern Italy and Crete, as well as Corinth,Attica, and Boeotia.....in fact, along with the Gorgoneion, the Bulls head was one of the most widely used devices in all Greece, if these large number of surviving examples are anything to go by..........
Quote:made in the "Nomsmatokopeion ton Eupatridon" = "Mint of the Nobles" just before closed down by Peisistratos. Until Kleisthenes standarised the "official Attik coinage" the nobility had the right to mint their own.Coinage, having originated in Asia Minor in the early 6th C BC, quickly spread to Greece in the mid 6th century. The use of the 'ox-head is most unlikely Heraldic however. It appears on early 'Attic' di-drachms called 'bous'( derived from the greek word for oxen/cattle).Plutarch gives the legendary explanation(Plut.Theseus.25) that Theseus had introduced the coins, and that the ox-head alluded to either the mythical Bull of Marathon, or the Minotaur. In fact, these early coins copied the 'ox-heads' on Euboean coins( whose name also derives from 'bous' = Oxen/cattle).....
No mention of "Heraldry"....
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - hoplite14gr - 07-14-2008
NOT every bull head but the particular bull head attached.
This is the one with the 36 examples that they are linked with the Marthon.
The other bull heads are not related with Thavlonidae
Kind regards
Hoplite Shield Designs - Paullus Scipio - 07-15-2008
That is just one of several 'bulls/ox head' designs from Luke Ueda-Sarson's site I posted earlier....what's more, it doesn't particularly resemble the design Christian is proposing to use,(see below) and in turn, none of the various ( and different) designs looks like the 'ox-head' di-drachm coins...... which incidently not only mimic Euboean coins,but are also made to Euboean weights and measures.....
Furthermore, just because a subject appears on Athenian Red Figure ware, doesn't mean that subject matter is always Athenian.......
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 07-15-2008
Stefanos, would you care to recommend a shield design that you see as Plataean or, at least, Boeotian? In the 500-475 period?
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - sulla felix - 08-17-2008
I have been looking at a shield design for a Platean hoplite too and was advised (by my good friend Mark and his contacts) that a square of four white branches on a black background with a red circle in the middle (the dedaleon square) would be appropriate. I am also interested in a raven design but not yet found anything on vase paintings that seems appropriate?
New to Greek reenactment so please excuse my ignorance!
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - hoplite14gr - 08-17-2008
Raven designs are on pottery fragments mostly.
A couple exist in the Agora Museum. Most online computer photos though are property of the Beasley Archive.
The ones in the "Perseus Project" are with "limited view".
Kind regards
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - sulla felix - 08-18-2008
Thanks Stefanos! The Beazely Archive is excellent. I found two very nice vase paintings with excellent depictions of a Raven on shields. Could you advise on colour? Presumably the Raven would be black, but what about background colour? Anything specific for Plataea colourwise? Any other specific border designs that I could use on the rim of the shield?
Too many questions I know but any help would be appreciated.
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - hoplite14gr - 08-18-2008
Black raven in bronze is the conservative aproach.
The triplet black, white , red dominates.
Usually blue or green (copper oxides) seem to appear after 490 an mostly in maritime cities but not exclusively.
Some Plateans had Doric origins others Achaic/Ionic. Under research from me but base on Heraklea tables I would advise circles on the rim.
Kind regards
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - sulla felix - 08-18-2008
Thanks for your help Stefanos. Very much appreciated.
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Servio Caro (Javier Sánc - 08-18-2008
Very interesting Peter, thank you very much for the info. Maybe this was a part of Alexander's mausoleum...
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - MikeTrevor - 08-30-2008
Another call for the illustious Stefanos I'm afraid!
Stefanos, please can you give me some shield design options (motifs and colours) for a Rhodian hoplite of 500-475 B.C.
Are there any other equipment/weapon or amour quirks for Rhodes that I should be aware of?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - hoplite14gr - 08-30-2008
You mean strictly Rhodes island or the "Doric Hexapolis" that includes the islands of Kos and Halicarnassos in the Carian coast?
Kind regards
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - MikeTrevor - 08-30-2008
Hi Stefanos
I had Rhodes Island in mind...
Regards
Mike
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - hoplite14gr - 08-30-2008
Please check your P.M. s
Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - MikeTrevor - 08-31-2008
Many thanks Stefanos!
Regards
Mike