Pteruges - Printable Version

Pteruges - Printable Version

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Pteruges - Caballo - 11-17-2005

Hi,

For shoulder and thigh pteruges, what width are you using? And how many per shoulder?

Also, on many orginals, I see stitching- was linen attached to the pteruges to stiffen them?

Look forward to your thoughts,

Cheers

Britannicus

Pteruges - Peroni - 11-18-2005

Paulus,

Two possibilities come to mind regarding the "Stitching".

1. It was stitching two layers of leather together for extra rigidity.

2. What we see on sculpture is perhaps punched decoration and not
stitching.

Certainly two layers of leather would be easier to do put together than the time consuming method of gluing together layers of linen, then attaching these to the defence.

My pteruges are 2" wide for the 'skirt' and just over 1 1/2" for the shoulders. I only have 6 strips on each shoulder. They are attached in a spread fan pattern so that when the subarmalis is put on, the strips all lie straight and at the same length down the arm.

Regards,

Thanks - Caballo - 11-18-2005

Thanks Peroni....if only I'd waited before cutting them last night in a straight line rather than a fan shape...... Cry

Pteruges - tlclark - 11-19-2005

Hi,

Just got through updating my website on pteruges.

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges

Basically, all the modern reconstructions show far too few pteruges. Most put on 6-12 pteruges. The actual range is more like 20-60! I have pictures, you can count them.

Hope this helps.

Travis

Update: Sorry about the broken link, I put a slash instead of a dot.

Re: Pteruges - Tarbicus - 11-19-2005

Quote:Hi,

Just got through updating my website on pteruges.

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges

Travis, the link doesn't seem to work.

Pteruges - tlclark - 11-19-2005

Sorry about the broken link above.

I've fixed it now. Here it is again.

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... m#pteruges

Thanks.

Travis

Re: Pteruges - aitor iriarte - 11-21-2005

Think that it would be most useful if the pterugae would have a layer of cloth sandwiched between, say, two layers of leather. Making the cloth layer longer than the leather ones, the fringes could be easily constructed in a way that they would stay firmly attached to their pteruga.

Aitor

Re: Pteruges - tlclark - 11-21-2005

Quote:Think that it would be most useful if the pterugae would have a layer of cloth sandwiched between, say, two layers of leather. Making the cloth layer longer than the leather ones, the fringes could be easily constructed in a way that they would stay firmly attached to their pteruga.

Hard to say... I've looked at these things in person a lot. The edges of the pteruges are definitely edged with some kind of sewn edge. You can see this in the images.

When I look at some of them, especially this example. They look more like cloth to me.

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... sdet5a.jpg

Notice how the edges are twisted, this isn't just from being beat up, it was carved that way.

They look stiff, but rather rumpled, more like cloth than leather, but that's just my impression.

But it could be cloth over a leather core too, so it's impossible to say.

Thanks for the insight Big Grin

Travis.
[/i]

Re: Pteruges - Caballo - 11-22-2005

"The edges of the pteruges are definitely edged with some kind of sewn edge. " There are a number of illustrations that show unedged pteruges- would you agree that these are authentic, or should all be edged?

I have now re-done my shoulder pteruges- trial gluing before final sewing is a good call!

Present position:-
-two rows of pteruges, one over the top of the other
-Fan construction, parallel sides
-9 per shoulder
- Just under two inches wide, six inches protruding under the hamata
-As yet unedged....

Now for sewing...

Cheers

Britannicus

Re: Pteruges - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-22-2005

SALVE

my shoulder pteruges:

Two rows of pteruges, one over the top of the other, overlapping. The top one are shorter.
Rectangular shape, with a red color stich edge. Made by two layers of leather glued fleshside with fleshside, and then stitched. They are rigid, so protective.

Stitching made with the shoemaker's method (with two needles).

I think that thoracatae statues shows many kind of pteruges, probably some were made of leather, others of cloth, others of both things.

Re: Pteruges - FAVENTIANVS - 11-23-2005

Could you post a closer pic of them?

Re: Pteruges - Theodosius the Great - 11-23-2005

Hi Travis,

Are you certain that the twisted fringe on pteruges is indicative of the Antonnine era ?

Because I've seem to have stumbled on contradictory evidence. Take a look at this sarcophagus relief dated to the 2nd century BC :

[Image: sarcophagus1.jpg]

It's from the cover of my book authored by Goldsworthy : "In The Name Of Rome"

The cavalryman seems to be wearing lorica musculata. Maybe the twisted fringe was merely revived during the Antonnine period ?

Re: Pteruges - tlclark - 11-23-2005

First, a lot of people have asked me to post images of pteruges. I have gone through my images and I will be updating the pteruges page with a lot more images and details.

About the twisted fringe, sure it's possible that the twisted fringe is a revivalism, I just don't know!
Confused

hock: Let me look into this. I don't know the particular sarcophagus.

As far as it being a "tell" for an antonine period piece I have no doubt. It shows up with hadrian and continues through the Antonine period. It's one of the more rigid stylisms for the period. What I don't know is whether it represents a change in technology, or a change in style. The lorica from the Julio-Claudian period have pretty standard fringe which is the hellenistic style (I'll post pictures). The heavy more twisted style is clearly a later affectation in the Roman context, whether it shows up earlier in a Greek context, I don't know.

"Fan pattern" - Theodosius the Great - 11-30-2005

Does someone know what a "fan pattern" looks like for shoulder pteruges :?: Are there measurements available to make a pattern :?:

Would the pteruges get progressively shorter as they move further away from the the center (in order to get them to align in a straight horizontal line when worn) :?:

I'm guessing it would look something like this :

[Image: fanpattern.jpg]

Is this right or even close :?:

Theo

Re: Pteruges - FAVENTIANVS - 12-01-2005

Great!

Thanx Theo!