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+--- Thread: Prodromoi (/showthread.php?tid=4109)
Prodromoi - Johnny Shumate - 11-11-2005
The Prodromoi in Alexander's army were armed with the sarissai(the infantry pike). Would they have used a 2 handed grip like the infantry? It would be almost impossible to use the sarissai with one hand. Any thoughts..?
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - Arthes - 11-11-2005
Greetings,
personally, I would have thought it would be used like the Kontos, but according to some sources they also carried a shield....this site gives some ideas [url:3ue2nnk4]http://www.thrace.0catch.com/cavalry_light.htm[/url]
regards
Arthes
re - Johnny Shumate - 11-11-2005
That's Chris Webber's site.
I worked with Chris on the Osprey book, "The Thracians". I did the two illustrations from the Kazanluk tomb.
Thanks for posting the site..!
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-11-2005
Jonny in the postings that Comerous did for his Armor he put an image from the grave of Philip II. It shows a Prodromos skewering a Persian and holding the lance with both hands. This is the best impresion of a Macedonian Prodoromos. Have a look it might help you a lot.
Kind regards
Stefanos
re - Johnny Shumate - 11-11-2005
The pic above has the Prodromoi holding the lance with one hand. Am I missing something..?
Thanks for the information, this is good stuff..!
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-11-2005
Sorry John, I was hasty and I forgot to look the picture in detail.
Just for the record, my dictionary says:
Sarissa = 6 to 7 meter pike cirka 18 feet. Infantry weapon
Xyston = Ancient cavalty lance 3 meters (11 feet?) Best image Alexander mosaic possibly. The horsemen were called "Xystoforoi" = the ones bearing Xyston.
2-handed lance charge by horsemen is associated with Sarmatian or Armenian catafracts. I would appreciate a better informed view though.
Kind regards
Stefanos
rre - Johnny Shumate - 11-11-2005
The pic above, is he wearing a multi-colored tunic or several different layers of clothing..?
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-11-2005
People still argue about it. Both explanations are plausible.
Keep in mind though that Northern Greece can have temperatures below zero in winter. That means that the people there did not get dressed like the Cretans!
Kind regards
Stefanos
Re: Prodromoi - Duncan Head - 11-12-2005
Quote:The Prodromoi in Alexander's army were armed with the sarissai(the infantry pike). Would they have used a 2 handed grip like the infantry? It would be almost impossible to use the sarissai with one hand. Any thoughts..?We think the prodromoi carried the sarissa because they are also called sarissophoroi. We think the Kinch tomb figure may be a prodromos because he is unarmoured and has a long spear; but it's not certain. Among other things the tomb's date is disputed, it could be too late to be an Alexandrian prodromos.
Johnny
If they did have a true sarissa, these varied in length; the minimum length was 10 cubits, or about 15 feet, and it is possible, but speculative, that this was the length of the prodromoi's weapon, a bit shorter than the normal infantry sarissa. In JRMES 11 (2000) Peter Connolly documented experiments in which a 10-cubit sarissa was used successfully from horseback in one hand.
cheers,
Duncan
re - Johnny Shumate - 11-12-2005
Duncan,
Thanks for the information!
What do you think the Prodromoi looked like? Long sleeved tunic(color?), bronze helmet, boots and a sword/sarissa..?
It's great having you on this website..!
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-12-2005
Raiding and scouting could be done with sword, javelines chiton and petassos. Riding boots of the "Thracian" type or any type of boots available.
In these case subdued colours might be apropriate.
Light cavalry service in the battle line would justify a helmet and a lance or cavalry sarissa. A spollas or a light shield could not be excluded either depnding on the mission at hand.
Clothing certainly depended on the campaighning season and the weather.
As for the weather: in April 1941 the German 100th regiment had 10 percent casualties from snow in the valleys at Belles mountains! (Greco-Bulgarian border)
My father also lost two men from his squad frostbitten in April 1949 at Paggaio mountains for the same reason.
That would give you an idea of "Spring" operations weather that the Macedonian or Thracian troops or any body for that reason had to face in this area. That might answer your question about clothing.
Kind regards
Stefanos
re - Johnny Shumate - 11-12-2005
It's strange that trousers weren't worn by the Northern Greeks/Thracians/Macedonians. You would think that the Scythians would have some clothing influence on the Northern Greeks...
Johnny
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-12-2005
Well the Evzonoi of the Presidential Guard were tight fitting woolen socks and breeches base on the folk dress. So warm cover for the lower body could not be ruled out and only 10 % of Greek pottery made it to us. So we speculate a lot.
Yes the Skythians would influence the Greeks.
Can you imagine a hoplite of Melitopolis (modern Melitopol) doing guard duty in the Russian winter only with chiton and trivomi? I can also mention the colonies of Crimea for that matter. I doubt that even a Spartan mercenary would brave this type of winter or else we might have gotten a frozen hoplite like Oggi of the Italian Alps :lol:
Kind regards
Stefanos
Re: Prodromoi - Arthes - 11-13-2005
Khairete,
so there may have been Hoplites in snazzy striped leggings under their warm winter chitons.
Be strange if some of the 'Scythians' actually turn out to be frozen Hoplites who borrowed some spare clothes..... :lol:
regards
Arthes
Re: Prodromoi - hoplite14gr - 11-13-2005
In the Royal Athena Galleries there is a an amphora with a woman carrying hoplite shield, helmet and has tight fitting dress.
The official version is that she is an Amazon but I say it cannot be excluded to be goddess Athena. On her shield there is a scorpion. There is avariation of the archne myth where Athina transformed her into a scorpion to punish her for her poisonous remarks during the contest.
Anyway this amphora in my opinion shows Athina in a tight fitting tunic and leggings. So it can be used as basis for reconstructing an "exterme weather" geared hoplite. Most of the clothes decoration is closer to Geometric Greek rather than Skythian.
Kind regards
Stefanos