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+--- Thread: Roof tile LEGTFM (/showthread.php?tid=3857)
Roof tile LEGTFM - Jona Lendering - 09-20-2005
Dear friends, during a visit to Rindern (a small village on the German-Dutch border; the ancient limes fort of Arenacum), I noticed a roof tile that was stamped LEGTFM or IEGTFM. If the first three signs are indeed LEG, they suggest that TFM is the abbreviation of a legion; PFM would have made sense (Pia Fidelis Minervia or something like that) but the T is clearly a T.
Does anyone know what kind of abbreviation this is? Here's a picture: [url:2isgikni]http://www.livius.org/a/germany/rindern/rindern_tile.JPG[/url].
More on Arenacum: [url:2isgikni]http://www.livius.org/a/germany/rindern/arenacum.html[/url]
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Robert Vermaat - 09-20-2005
Are you completely sure the 'T' is not a 'I' that went a bit wrong? I mean, this is a tile, not a ceremonial inscription.
I'm not sure how that would help, but LEG I FM could point to legio I Minerva, which was present in that area.
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Jona Lendering - 09-20-2005
I Minervia Pia Fidelis is what I have been thinking about too. There's no topographical problem, but something like LEG I PFM would have been more plausible - we would have to assume that an I became a T and the P was forgotten. I still hope for something better; still, as it now stands, I think the First is the most likely candidate.
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Carlton Bach - 09-20-2005
Could it be a ligature, with the I integrated into the P? I've seen those on inscriptions and they can be hard to make out, usually just the upward stroke of the letter extending just a tiny bit higher than the others.
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Flavius Promotus - 09-20-2005
Carlton could be right. Perhaps it is indeed a failed attempt to combine an I and a P. After all, tile stamps are quite often not 100% orthographically correct (spelling errors, mirror-inverted letters, letters left out, etc.).
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Jona Lendering - 09-20-2005
This sounds very plausible indeed. Anyone else?
Tile stamps - Viventius - 09-20-2005
This website mentions the Legion's full title could have been Legion I Flavia Minervia
http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/i_minervia.html
Hence a stamp with LEGIFM, perhaps? However, my big book of German Roman Tile stamps (Untersuchungen zu den Ziegelstempeln Römischer Legionen by Ulrich Brandl) does not seem confirm this as a typical stamp for LEG I. I say seem, as I'm going by the pics & what I understand of the written catalogue (not too much)
And just cos I like tile stamps, here's a nice site with lots, including Legion I
http://www.romancoins.info/Legionary-Bricks1.html
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Jona Lendering - 09-20-2005
Ahem. Where's my head? That webpage on I Minervia, I wrote that one myself. I should have remembered the orginal name, Flavia Minervia.
This is again a plausible hypthosis. Anyone another idea?
Regarding Ts - Viventius - 09-20-2005
Regarding possible Ts in the stamps. In Untersuchungen zu den Ziegelstempeln Römischer Legionen by Ulrich Brandl quite a few of the stamps are listed as having Ts, but are still assigned to Legion I Minervia.
In addition, different tiles (eg. the curved surface of imbrex) make the stamp appear differently and there is sometimes a weight differential when using the stamp so letters may not appear clearly, etc. So interpretation can be obscured sometimes. And not to mention tilemakers trying to copy old, worn tile stamps and not understanding what the original said ...
With regard to Flavia, it may be that when the Flavian emperors finished, the name was dropped. So it may be this tile with the F, rather than awarded titles, is quite an early one. The Brandl book seems to be the product of a tile collection in Munich, and not a wide area study including all known examples. So LEGIFM might be a recognised stamp, but it's just not in this book.
Re: Roof tile LEGTFM - Jona Lendering - 09-20-2005
Well, that seems to settle the case. THANKS!!!!!