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+--- Thread: Good helmets for early second century legionarries (/showthread.php?tid=3728)
Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Marcus Mummius - 08-18-2005
Salvete,
What would be a good helmet choice for an early second century legionary of the Thirtieth legion? This legion fought in the dacian wars and was later stationed in Xanten. Which helmet types would you recommend?
Thank you very much in advance,
Best regards,
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Tib. Gabinius - 08-18-2005
Very easy,
a good idea would be the Weissenau helmet (imperial-gallic) and added with the crossed strips of iron on it, you can see it e.g. on your avatar, a picture out of connollys Roman Army book.
Also Typ Hebron is dated to early second, and the italian D (dont nail me with the english-american names), i think so called Mainz-Weissenau (the one with the eagle and the temple on it).
You can take a look e.g.
http://www.hetmanmilitaria.de/products/ ... german.jpg
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Marcus Mummius - 08-18-2005
Indeed, I was thinking about adding crossbars. What type of Imperial Gallic helmet would be best?
Another question: if a helmet with retrofitted crossbars is tinned, should the crossbars also be thinned?
Best regards and thanks for the help!
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - John M McDermott - 08-18-2005
Where does the Italic D fall on this chart?
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Magnus - 08-18-2005
It depends on what we consider to be the "typical" roman military helmet used by the legions. One complete Gallic G has been found as has one from hebron, the Itallic G. So it's difficult to say what style or type was in use more than the other.
But since I tend to go with the flow as well, I'd say buy a decent gallic G or H, and add on the cross bracing yourself. I used to have a picture of a Gallic style helmet, with soldered on crossbraces. Really rough...a perfect quick battle field adaptation done in a pinch.
The hebron helmet came about 45 years too late...it's been dated to around 150 AD. Notice the bracing is rather well done...not a quick fix likely facing the Legion's armourers.
I would hammer some round rod flat on one side...bend to shape, and solder it on. Failing that, hammer flatten both ends and drive some rivets through it.
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - FlaviusCrispus - 08-18-2005
As a unit of the early-mid second century AD, Legio VI VPF (CA) mostly uses cross-braced helmets of various types. Our primary helmet is the so-called Hebron helmet, or Italic G, the Deepeeka version of which is seen here:
![[Image: dp6056a.jpg]](http://www.legionsix.org/dp6056a.jpg)
The Hebron helmet almost certainly dates to the Bar Kochba War, CE 132-135, so it falls within our late Hadrianic impression. We also use a number of Imperial Gallic helmets "field retrofitted" with cross-braces, as seen in this Peter Conolly illustration:
![[Image: cross-braced%20Imp%20Gallic%20helm.jpg]](http://www.legionsix.org/cross-braced%20Imp%20Gallic%20helm.jpg)
Our own Quintus Florentius (Jared Fleury) can be seen wearing a retrofitted Gallic H in this photo:
![[Image: ballista%20024.jpg]](http://www.legionsix.org/ballista%20024.jpg)
With retrofitted cross-bracing, we generally do not notch or "thin" the iron bars where they meet, but simply lay one across the other, as seen in the Connolly illustration. The terminal ends, however, are thinned to take the rivet. The trick, of course, is to do sufficient "heating and beating" to get the bars to conform well to the shape of the helmet.
If you want to portray a soldier of a somewhat later date, say mid-late second century or early third, you could use a version of the beautiful Guttmann "Mouse helmet," seen here:
![[Image: neideroblique.jpg]](http://www.legionsix.org/neideroblique.jpg)
This type helmet is now thought to be somewhat earlier than the late second / third century date first assigned, due to its clear descent from the Imperial Italic "D" type from Mainz, a helmet clearly dated to the mid-first century AD.
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Marcus Mummius - 08-19-2005
Thanks for the help!
An Imperial-Gallic helmet with retrofitted crossbars it will be then.
Just this question remains: how often were these helmets tinned? And if crossbars were added to a tinned helmet, should you also tin the crossbars?
Best regards,
Tinning helmets - FlaviusCrispus - 08-19-2005
Salutum, Marcus Memmius!
Tinning was probably more common than we realize on ancient helmets. Most of the tinned helmets I have seen or personally handled were bronze or brass, tinned to look silver, including this one, from the Guttmann Collection:
![[Image: gallicAleft.jpg]](http://www.legionsix.org/gallicAleft.jpg)
But I an given to understand that some iron helmets also show signs of tinning as well.
Since cross pieces grafted on to an Imperial Gallic helmet would be a hastily added "field retrofit," I personally doubt whether the cross pieces themselves would be tinned. We in Legio VI VPF tend to leave them in a rather rough, hammered, semi-blackened state, which makes for a nice contrast with the bright, carefully finished helmet bowl.
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Marcus Mummius - 08-19-2005
I see. Thanks Crispus!
Do you perhaps know of someone who could give me a detailed description of how to make and attach those crossbars?
Kindest regards,
Try Florentius - FlaviusCrispus - 08-19-2005
Ave, Mummius!
Two of our members have done this retrofit, Gil Whitley (Gaius Darius Severus) and Jared Fleury (Quintus Florentius Agippa). Probably the easiest to reach right now is Jared, although he's tragically in the midst of a major move and may be too busy to answer in a timely fashion. His fabulous website can be found here:
http://florentius.com/index.htm
Alas, there is no detailed description of the helmet retrofit, but he's a helpful fellow and will no doubt answer any of your questions, if he's not too swamped with other stuff.
Gil is also just as helpful, but his internet connection has been problematic as of late. He's actually the first guy to do this particular retrofit, and so probably has a long list of do's and don'ts. If you're out there, Severus, can you drop Mummius a note on how you did your retrofit.
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Magnus - 08-22-2005
That's the picture I had a photocopy of that Flavius posted, of the Gallic style helm with the bracing.
Thanks Flavius!!!
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Daniel S Peterson - 08-30-2005
Jef,
It is really almost futile to attempt doing a reasonably accurate Roman "group" of the early to mid 2nd century because of the scarcity of surviving equipment in the archaeological record. The crude cross-braced field-expedient helmets of the Dacian wars were probably replaced as soon as the hostilities of those wars ceased, and then the only infantry helmet we have for several decades afterwards is the Hebron helmet. Neither do we have any complete swords or daggers from this transitional period. Would every soldier in Hadrian's time have worn the Hebron helmet? Highly unlikely. Nor would they have worn a 100 year old imperial gallic helmet with cross-braces. Virtually all of the Imperial Gallic helmets reproduced date from the early to mid first century AD, making it highly unlikey any of these types would still have been in use during the time of Trajan, let alone the time of Hadrian, for they would have been 100 year old antiques by then.
There was probably as much diversity in Roman military equipment in the second century as there was the first, so it is unfortunate how few military artifacts dating to the early to mid 2nd century have survived. Not even enough to accurately represent a single Roman soldier let alone a unit!
It is no wonder most people choose to depict the first century with the great diversity of surviving equipment. The ratio of surviving Roman "infantry" helmets from the 1st, versus the 2nd centuries AD could easily be 1:100, and no complete swords, no daggers, etc. There are some interesting new segmened armors later in the century, but they may all date after the Hadriannic period as well, and then the only infantry helmet is the rather ugly Theilenhofen one in which the browguard was missing and must remain hypethetical.
Jef, it is fun to "divert from the mainstream" just to be different, but if you seriously want to do a reasonably authentic Roman impression, I suggest you depict a period in which we have enough evidence to do it accurately. I think you will get the same sad message from Mike Bishop's Roman Military Equipment book regarding any attempt to accurately depict soldiers from the early to middle 2nd century AD. There is simply not enough surviving material now, but someday perhaps.
Dan
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Magnus - 08-30-2005
As Dan stated himself, many of the equipment was going through a transitional phase, so if you're doing an impression during the Dacian wars (like our unit) you can easily use a lot of 1st century gear.
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Marcus Mummius - 08-30-2005
Indeed, we'd like to represent the legion in that period. We have a lot of first century gear but also things like newstead seg's mixed in.
Valete
Re: Good helmets for early second century legionarries - Daniel S Peterson - 08-30-2005
Jef,
As Mike Bishop says in Roman Military Equipment (p.117), these new segmented body armours probably did not appear until the Antonine period. Therefore, mixing them with 100 year old mid-first century helmets would be a ridiculous fantasy, and what surviving swords and daggers exist from the Hadrianic period? Even the the first century helmets commonly manufactured would not be very suitable for a Tranjanic-Hadrianic impression, for no really late 1st century ones were ever made by Deepeeka. There was no point to make them for most people preferred the earlier period due to the lack of evidence later on.
No, until more archaeological finds are made, attempting to recreate soldiers from the time of Hadrian are about 90 percent guesswork and fantasy. We know the Corbridge armor was still around, and the Hebron helmet, some scattered bits and pieces of other items, but that's about it. How can you make an authentic Roman unit from that, save for illogically claiming everyone used "antique" weapons and armor from the middle of the 1st century AD? Still, I suppose it will still have a bit more redeeming qualities than recreating the Lord of the the Rings costumes.
If people really want to make a reenactment group using the "later" versions of the lorica segmentata, the period of choice would be circa 250 AD, for we have a wealth of material to reconstruct complete soldiers due to the vast quantities of military equipment from the fall of Dura Europas and the Abandonment of the German Limes. The equipment would be much more distinct from 1st century as well, with entirely new types of swords, body armor, belts, helmets and the many complete shields from Dura. Deepeeka makes both the Gutmann and Niedermormter helmets of the era as well. I have displayed a complete reconstruction of a figure of this time in my Rome exhibition and it is very impressive. You can see it in the RAT archives though I don't have the link at hand.
The Hebron helmet looks cool, but you need a lot more finds than that to accurately reconstruct the soldiers from the time of Hadrian. Oh, and you better grow a beard too, because the evidence suggests it was probably compulsary, since after all, the God-Emperor had one.
Dan