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+--- Thread: Helmet covers, or not? (/showthread.php?tid=3430)
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Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 05-29-2005
I have seen some references to Caesar writing that, during an attack by the Helvetii, his men did not have time to fix the insignia, or take off their helmet covers. Does anyone know of any attempts to make such a cover, even though there seems to be no archaeological find at all? Or, to speculate how such a thing would be constructed?
I would imagine it would not be too difficult for a pre-Gallic type (Montefortino, Mannheim, et al), but the extended neckguard and browguard would make this *not-so-straightforward" for a later 'Gallic' or 'Italic' type.
Cheers.
Don\'t you mean shield covers? - Neuraleanus - 05-29-2005
See:
http://66.66.131.145/roman/scutum_cover.jpg
Then again, maybe the existance of a helmet cover could explain some of the details shown on Trajan's column.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 05-29-2005
Quote:Then again, maybe the existance of a helmet cover could explain some of the details shown on Trajan's column.
Neuraleanus, is this what you're talking about?
[url:33gnhlbt]http://cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/images/hi/1.6.h.jpg[/url]
Cheers.
A helmet cover? - Neuraleanus - 05-30-2005
Yes.
Other strange headgear? - Caballo - 05-30-2005
That is extraordinary....are there any other strange bits of head gear sculpted on Trajan's column or elsewhere?
Thanks for posting it!
Paulus
![[Image: 1.6.h.jpg]](http://cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/images/hi/1.6.h.jpg)
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - hansvl - 05-30-2005
Hi all,
Well, actually that reference isn't about an attack of the Helvetii, but about an attack during the battle of the Sabis against the Nervii (book II,21):
Temporis tanta fuit exiguitas hostiumque tam paratus ad dimicandum animus ut non modo ad insignia accommodanda sed etiam ad galeas induendas scutisque tegimenta detrahenda tempus defuerit.
And Caesar is clearly not talking about helmet covers, but shield covers!
But anyhow, interesting topic nevertheless.
Hans
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 05-30-2005
Hi Hans,
I thought that was a completely different reference to a different battle where the shields stayed covered? The other I refer to is where the helmet covers stay on and the insignia cannot be raised? I'm obviously mistaken.
However
"[3.62] Upon receiving this intelligence, Pompey, who had already formed the design of attempting a sally, as before mentioned, ordered the soldiers to make ozier coverings for their helmets,..."
So perhaps it wasn't common for a cover to be used for the helmet, except in special circumstances? Ozier seems to be some kind of plant (very hard to find reference to) which can be used to make baskets. Therefore, is this use of camouflage, or an added protection as seen next?
Also;
[3.63] "....Besides, the coverings of oziers, which they had laid over their helmets, were a great security to them against the blows of stones which were the only weapons that our soldiers had..."
Cheers.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - hansvl - 05-31-2005
Hi Tarbicus,
I don't think that the reference we're looking for is in the account of the war against the Helvetii like you suggested. The war against the Helvetii is covered in Caesar BG I, 2-30, but I haven't found anything nearly related to (covered) helmets.
In the passage I quoted in my earlier reply Caesar speaks of insignia not being raised, helmets not put on and helmet covers not taken away. Are you sure you're not confusing things?
Maybe we have to look furtheron in BG for the right reference, but I haven't had the time yet to look into that.
Hans
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 05-31-2005
Quote:In the passage I quoted in my earlier reply Caesar speaks of insignia not being raised, helmets not put on and helmet covers not taken away. Are you sure you're not confusing things?
Hi Hans,
No I'm not confused :wink: I definitely did get it wrong (sorry all). I think my previous message didn't say that clearly. But I'm intriqued by the use of ozier during the Civil Wars to either camouflage or add more protection to the helmets, or both.
Cheers.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - marsvigilia - 05-31-2005
Since Trajan's column has such inaccurate depictions of segmentata, should we lend any credence to the depictions of helmets?
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 05-31-2005
Quote:Since Trajan's column has such inaccurate depictions of segmentata, should we lend any credence to the depictions of helmets?
There are certain Italian reenactors who would disagree about the seg depictions.
Cheers.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - marsvigilia - 05-31-2005
Quote:There are certain Italian reenactors who would disagree about the seg depictions.Bah! Hum Bug!
What do Italians know about Rome?
:twisted:
Helmet covers - Graham Sumner - 05-31-2005
It is Frontinus who mentions that while Pompey the Great was in Albania he ordered his infantry, who were in concealed positions, to cover their helmets. This was so the sun would not reflect off them and give themselves away to the enemy.
Graham.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - Tarbicus - 06-01-2005
Thanks Graham, that's put my mind at ease.
Quote:Since Trajan's column has such inaccurate depictions of segmentata
While that may be so, there is accurate segmentata depicting what's on Trajan's Column :wink:
[url:3rixyiq7]http://www.romanarmy.nl/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4338[/url]
Cheers.
Re: Helmet covers, or not? - floofthegoof - 06-02-2005
The hat on Trajan's column looks curiously Scottish to me. (never been to Scotland I must admit.) I wonder if those little winter hats with the ball on top derives from these Roman helmet covers.