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+--- Thread: 5th-century javelins (/showthread.php?tid=31713)
5th-century javelins - Dan D'Silva - 07-22-2023
Hello again,
Can anyone tell me for certain whether the Western Romans were still employing javelins of any type by the mid-5th century and if so, where I can learn about what they looked like and how they were deployed?
Thank you.
RE: 5th-century javelins - Robert Vermaat - 07-25-2023
(07-22-2023, 01:09 AM)Dan D'Silva Wrote: Hello again,
Can anyone tell me for certain whether the Western Romans were still employing javelins of any type by the mid-5th century and if so, where I can learn about what they looked like and how they were deployed?
Thank you.
Not a simple answer!
Vegetius is the culprit here, describing how the pilum was replaced by the plumbata (or 'mattiobarbulus' as he misspells 'martiobarbulus'), the spiculum (possibly similar to the pilum) and the verutum (a lighter javelin). Whether these differ from the Germanic angon and bebra we don't know, because Vegetius and his colleagues fail to mention the finer details, most of them using generic terminology that drives us up the walls!
Arrian on the other hand equips his legions with 'kontoois' and 'lancea', which cannot be both pila, and may be a foreshadowing of the late Roman hasta and javelins.
In short - we do not know for sure. Many javelins of possibly many types, but probably no longer the heavy pilum-like javelins as main weapon.
RE: 5th-century javelins - Dan D'Silva - 07-25-2023
Thank you.
I am just learning this morning about the Evebø grave. Assuming it's dated correctly, it's close to the time period I'm looking for (around the Battle of Chalons) and I can understand the idea that the angon was a fusion of the pilum and a Germanic type, if we're talking about something like the shorter-necked, broader-bladed ones from Nydam. Of course, that doesn't tell whether the Romans were still using long-necked javelins, but maybe it counts as circumstantial evidence?
RE: 5th-century javelins - Dan D'Silva - 08-14-2023
Anyone have an opinion on this javelin head? It's billed as Viking but to me it looks pretty much like some of the shorter, broader ones from Nydam. I don't know if an exact date exists for those.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1318017032/forged-viking-spear-head-medieval-spear
RE: 5th-century javelins - Crispianus - 08-15-2023
Maybe Germanic "Vingsted" type, Speerspitzen type 6-8 illerup, difficult to put a date on it but broadly 2 -3rd century ad or a little later, I dont think they go on as long as the 5th, I'm sure I've seen the same general type in roman use but can't think where at the moment...
RE: 5th-century javelins - Dan D'Silva - 08-15-2023
Okay, thanks. I'll keep looking then.