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The colour black - Zarathustra - 05-16-2021
Salve!
since the Romans considered black the colour of death, would it make sense to them, to wear a black tunic and black shield etc to scare their enemies?
Are there mentionings of such things?
Florian
RE: The colour black - Michael J. Taylor - 05-16-2021
Black is a very difficult color to dye in the pre-modern period, usually involving dying the fabric a deep blue (often with multiple dyings) and deploying certain mordants (chemicals that cause the dye to stick to the fabric) to cause the darkest pigments to stick. An expensive and difficult process. Soldiers clothes in antiquity, so far as we can tell, were either natural fibre colors like off-white, or bright primary colors like blue or red, produced by readily available natural dyes.
Dark clothing, perhaps not black, was worn for mourning. It was not until the early modern period, with the aid of pigments from the New World, that black clothing became common for formal occasions and mourning.
RE: The colour black - Crispianus - 05-17-2021
(05-16-2021, 08:29 PM)Michael J. Taylor Wrote: Black is a very difficult color to dye in the pre-modern period, usually involving dying the fabric a deep blue (often with multiple dyings) and deploying certain mordants (chemicals that cause the dye to stick to the fabric) to cause the darkest pigments to stick. An expensive and difficult process. Soldiers clothes in antiquity, so far as we can tell, were either natural fibre colors like off-white, or bright primary colors like blue or red, produced by readily available natural dyes.
Dark clothing, perhaps not black, was worn for mourning. It was not until the early modern period, with the aid of pigments from the New World, that black clothing became common for formal occasions and mourning.
Its actually quite easy to do, Pliny mentions "shoes makers black" (using Copporas) and there are some roman shoes from Premnis (Egypt 25bc+) that appear to be "dyed" this way though it would be more correct to call it a stain (applied with a swab or brush) and its permanent too, it relies on the reaction between Vegetable Tannins and Iron acetate/sulphate.
For cloth (more probably spun wool) you would first prepare by soaking in a tannic acid solution (ground up walnut husks, pomegranate rind, acacia pods, chessnuts etc) and then dip it in a Iron acetate/sulphate solution (vinegar and iron ore, rust or iron left in a pot for a week or so produces a milder Iron acetate) to produce a jet black.
This is a cheap way of producing a good black it does have a draw back in that Iron Sulphate can make wool fibres brittle over time, the method described by Michael above would only be for the very wealthy due to the expensive dyes needed, but has a greater tendency to fade in sunlight over time as well.
RE: The colour black - Zarathustra - 05-17-2021
Thank you for your responses but my question was rather aimed at if they would wear it and what they associated with it... I heard a story about a general waring black with this being considered a bad omen by his soldiers and him loosing the battle
RE: The colour black - Hanny - 05-28-2021
(05-16-2021, 06:13 PM)Zarathustra Wrote: Salve!
since the Romans considered black the colour of death, would it make sense to them, to wear a black tunic and black shield etc to scare their enemies?
Are there mentionings of such things?
Florian
Tradesman wore black, the black toga came into fashion for nobles at funerals and for a peroid of mourning the loss of a loved one,Cato wore one in the senate as he mourned for the death of the Republic, ( tv series Rome showed this nicely) https://www.jstor.org/stable/26663658?seq=1 why would black tunics scare anyone?, not least as many of their foes would not care the Romans were in mourning, its who your fighting that the colour needs to have a psy ops effect.
You may find this of use,COLOUR AND MEANING IN ANCIENT ROME
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805211/10426/frontmatter/9780521110426_frontmatter.pdf
RE: The colour black - Nathan Ross - 05-28-2021
(05-17-2021, 10:11 AM)Zarathustra Wrote: I heard a story about a general waring black with this being considered a bad omen by his soldiers and him loosing the battle
That was Crassus before the battle of Carrhae (Plutarch, Life of Crassus, 23.1)
The story (whether real or not) illustrates the problem with black - it was indeed associated with death, but not in the way we tend to think of it today. The Roman association was with loss, mourning, and very bad omens. They did not think of it in a 'goth' sort of way, as something powerful or terrifying.
So there would be little reason for soldiers to wear black to strike their enemies with fear and awe. Roman military culture instead accentuated bright colours, flashy polished armour and bling-covered equipment; that was what they considered impressive and terrifying, not deathly black.
(Then again, there is a picture from the early 4th century Roman principia at Luxor showing what appears to be a senior officer dressed in a short sleeved black tunic beneath a yellow-brown cloak, so perhaps it wasn't entirely unusual. Unless the man concerned was on his way to a funeral, perhaps?)