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+--- Thread: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army (/showthread.php?tid=31166)
Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - William Panagopoulos - 09-04-2019
its well established that, with the marian reforms, all citizens of rome, instead of entering the tiered system of yesteryear all mostly just became legionaries.
what is not made as clear, is what happened to the role of the light infantryman with his javelins, were they replaced by other local troops (i occasionally hear mentions of the rorarii and the local leves, or was the role even more strongly filled withthe ranks of the auxillia in the same way the archers were fulfilled mostly by syrians and the like.
and more to that point, do we have ANY idea what these new light skirmish troops might have looked like.
RE: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - Steven James - 09-07-2019
My money is on the velites being replaced by 600 archers and 600 slingers per legion. I wouldn't be confident of Marian made this reform. I date this reform to be around 123 BC, that is the enlistment into the legion of the capite censi.
RE: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - William Panagopoulos - 09-14-2019
so what youre saying is that, in general, the use of light javelins was almost entirely replaced by slings and bows for skirmishing?
RE: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - Steven James - 09-16-2019
William Panagopoulos Wrote:so what youre saying is that, in general, the use of light javelins was almost entirely replaced by slings and bows for skirmishing?
I run with the primary sources and what they say. Archers and slingers became an important part of the legion's composition. So a legion consisted of legionaries, archers and slingers, but by the reign of Augustus, this was not the case, a legion consisted of all legionaries. So it was for a short period of time. A legion's archers and slingers could also act separately with javelin men.
RE: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - William Panagopoulos - 09-27-2019
(09-16-2019, 03:21 PM)Steven James Wrote:William Panagopoulos Wrote:so what youre saying is that, in general, the use of light javelins was almost entirely replaced by slings and bows for skirmishing?
I run with the primary sources and what they say. Archers and slingers became an important part of the legion's composition. So a legion consisted of legionaries, archers and slingers, but by the reign of Augustus, this was not the case, a legion consisted of all legionaries. So it was for a short period of time. A legion's archers and slingers could also act separately with javelin men.
and it is the nature and source of recruiting of those javelin men i am trying to delve into after the velites went away with the marian reforms
RE: Who replaced the velites in the princpate army - Bryan - 10-18-2019
(09-16-2019, 03:21 PM)Steven James Wrote:William Panagopoulos Wrote:so what youre saying is that, in general, the use of light javelins was almost entirely replaced by slings and bows for skirmishing?
I run with the primary sources and what they say. Archers and slingers became an important part of the legion's composition. So a legion consisted of legionaries, archers and slingers, but by the reign of Augustus, this was not the case, a legion consisted of all legionaries. So it was for a short period of time. A legion's archers and slingers could also act separately with javelin men.
What are the sources for all of these claims?
- 123 BC recruitment of Capite Censi
- Rhodian archers and Balearic slingers being members of Roman citizen legions and not just attached to an army as foederati. Also, were the Thracian cavalry and Ligurian infantry also in he legions too?
- Proof of citizen archers and slingers