(07-30-2019, 01:29 AM)Condottiero Magno Wrote: Just received my copy of Ancient Warfare XIII.1 and what do I see in the background? Epirote phalangites wielding sarrisae with coupling-sleeves...  Matthew's An Invincible Beast had 'em, but I could ignore the specific chapter, as it's a decent work, while Dahm's Macedonian Phalangite vs Persian Warrior: Alexander confronts the Achaemenids, 334–331 BC  lazily regurgitated it, like a pair of Hawkwood's dismounted men-at-arms wielding a single spear. Why is the coupling sleeve still perpetuated, despite no other examples and no mention of it in accounts?

(07-30-2019, 06:50 AM)Crispianus Wrote:

(07-30-2019, 01:29 AM)Condottiero Magno Wrote: Just received my copy of Ancient Warfare XIII.1 and what do I see in the background? Epirote phalangites wielding sarrisae with coupling-sleeves...  Matthew's An Invincible Beast had 'em, but I could ignore the specific chapter, as it's a decent work, while Dahm's Macedonian Phalangite vs Persian Warrior: Alexander confronts the Achaemenids, 334–331 BC  lazily regurgitated it, like a pair of Hawkwood's dismounted men-at-arms wielding a single spear. Why is the coupling sleeve still perpetuated, despite no other examples and no mention of it in accounts?

I guess they just cannot imagine how else you could make such a long pike.... so it would seem logical, even if the evidence doesn't fit the logic.

Thought it worthwhile to check Theophrastus "Enquiry into plants" and low and behold...

The reference is to Cornelian Cherry, Cornus mas, European Cornel (apparantly this can grow up to 12m tall) :

"The height of the male tree is at most 12 cubits, the length of the longest macedonian spear"

I have no idea if this is true, that the longest spear is 12 cubits or about 18ft but at least its contemporary, and if so would suggest you could make the Sarissa from one piece with no need for any join.

(07-30-2019, 10:50 PM)Dan Howard Wrote: They had no trouble making pikes up to 25 feet long in the Middle Ages. Why not in earlier times?

(07-31-2019, 12:17 AM)Condottiero Magno Wrote: Sekunda quoted Theophrastus in his Macedonian Armies after Alexander 323–168 BC , but said ash was preferred due to its light weight, strength and flexibility: a 15ft cornel wood shaft, without metal parts, would weigh 4kg, nearly double the weight of an ash shaft. I think the majority of the coupling sleeve crowd have accepted that trees can grow to such lengths, so they changed the subject to the benefits of having a two piece pike.  I've quoted Matthews on another thread, concerning the tactical use and logistical benefits of the coupling link, but there are no other surviving examples nor any contemporary mention of this Macedonian ingenuity.

(07-30-2019, 01:29 AM)Condottiero Magno Wrote: Just received my copy of Ancient Warfare XIII.1 and what do I see in the background? Epirote phalangites wielding sarrisae with coupling-sleeves...  Matthew's An Invincible Beast had 'em, but I could ignore the specific chapter, as it's a decent work, while Dahm's Macedonian Phalangite vs Persian Warrior: Alexander confronts the Achaemenids, 334–331 BC  lazily regurgitated it, like a pair of Hawkwood's dismounted men-at-arms wielding a single spear. Why is the coupling sleeve still perpetuated, despite no other examples and no mention of it in accounts?

(11-13-2019, 01:05 AM)Anatol Wyss Wrote: Apart from being worrying if such details are presented as facts without the scientific backing, wouldn't it just make allot of sense, practically and logistical wise? I would also guess that quite allot of the stuff one can read today about the ancients would never reach the bookshelves without reasonable interpretations and qualified guesses of the many scribbles found on pottery fragments and many times copied literature with missing pages(?).

BTW, Immediately found an illustrative picture of the Macedonian sleeve on History Net...;

https://www.historynet.com/macedonian-sarissa-spartan-hunting-spear-of-philip-ii.htm