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Location in second Macedonian war... - Printable Version

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Location in second Macedonian war... - ParthianBow - 04-21-2017

Can any of you translate the name of the Kirli-Derbend pass, which is western Macedonia, near Lake Vergoritida in N Greece? The ancient name isn't known, and if I knew the meaning of the modern name, I could make up a realistic one for my new novel.

Af karisto!


RE: Location in second Macedonian war... - Renatus - 04-21-2017

(04-21-2017, 10:50 AM)ParthianBow Wrote: Can any of you translate the name of the Kirli-Derbend pass, which is western Macedonia, near Lake Vergoritida in N Greece? The ancient name isn't known, and if I knew the meaning of the modern name, I could make up a realistic one for my new novel.

Af karisto!

According to The Times History of the War (1917), Vol. 12, p. 32, Kirli Derbend means 'Dirty Pass'. You can find it on the Internet Archive.


RE: Location in second Macedonian war... - Michael Kerr - 04-22-2017

Derbend/Derbent derives from Persian darband or closed gate, pass or gateway. There was another Derbent pass which was also a narrow pass and city situated between the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus and is one is one of a few candidates for the mythical “Gates of Alexander” along with the Darial Pass, Gorgan and Rhagae, although the Darial which was further west and was a mountain pass which was known as the “Gate of the Alans” and was a well trodden invasion route for steppe invaders. Kirli is Turkish for dirty so I assume the modern name has an Ottoman origin. Military or constabulary units established for guarding these roads, passes or bridges and collecting local taxes were called Dervendjis. Smile
Regards
Michael Kerr


RE: Location in second Macedonian war... - Michael Kerr - 04-22-2017

This story has nothing to do with the pass at Macedonia but more to do with the Derbent pass near the Caspian. I read an old 1840 Turkish version of the book Derbend-Nâmeh, or ”the history of Derbend" or the parts with English translations on Google books where the Turkish author translated Persian and Arabic material and described a battle in the Arab-Khazar wars, in reality a series of wars, between 642 and 737 AD. Apparently the Arab armies invaded Khazar territory in the winter and won a battle near the town of Derbend/Derbent and made great slaughter and carried off the enemies' horses. This battle they called the "Battle of the Mud" or "Dirty Engagement" because of frequent rains. The Arabic leader Mervan ordered his men to cut off the tails off their horses due to the abundance of mud which clung to their tails. Of course it has nothing to do with Macedonia except for the Derbend/Derbent but maybe some connection or similarity in the name and I still thought it was worth mentioning.
Regards

Michael Kerr



RE: Location in second Macedonian war... - ParthianBow - 04-23-2017

Many thanks, both Michaels!