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+--- Thread: Tunic with two vertical stripes? (/showthread.php?tid=30267)
Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Mervlvs - 02-16-2017
Hello everyone¡¡...the question is the following....about a military tunic, I mean...talking about a centurio, not a magistrate or a knight...could does he wear a tunic with the two clavus but in other colour instead of purple? If it could be possible...what does it could means?
Thank you in advance
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Robert Vermaat - 02-17-2017
What do you mean by a 'military tunic'? And which period are you referring to?
Centuriones would (like the rest of the soldiers as well as civilians) wear other colours, purple being reserved for the upper echelons of military and society.
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Nathan Ross - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 12:28 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote: purple being reserved for the upper echelons of military and society.
I think there was a debate about this recently (on fb, possibly), and Graham Sumner mentioned finds from Egypt of tunic fragments from a military context (1st-2nd c?) with purple clavi - this might suggest that purple (or shades of purple) could be worn by the 'lower echelons' too.
As for tunics in general, wall paintings from Pompeii (AD79) show clavi on tunics, including fullery workers and people at a dinner party - so they were worn quite widely across society. Most appear to be dark reddish on white, although that could be because they show up better - this painting shows (very narrow) clavi on both yellow and red tunics.
I don't know if the ordinary clavii meant anything in particular - perhaps just a fashion thing?
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Graham Sumner - 02-17-2017
Hi
There is a long standing belief that purple was purely reserved for either the emperor or at the very least the upper classes. This is simply not the case.
The true purple dye was however so expensive that only the very rich could afford it.
Nevertheless there were many 'fake' versions of purple dye available and many late roman period tunics from Egypt are decorated with purple designs.
Furthermore the clavi on tunics from military sites in Egypt from the first to second century come in various colours including purple.
A tiny fragment of a gamma motif from a garment found at Vindolanda was also probably a purple colour.
Graham.
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Mervlvs - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 10:28 PM)Graham Sumne Wrote: Furthermore the clavi on tunics from military sites in Egypt from the first to second century come in various colours including purple.So...it won´t be a madness if a centurio from 1st-2nd wore it, being not in purple for example, like the following pic
(02-17-2017, 02:58 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: I don't know if the ordinary clavii meant anything in particular - perhaps just a fashion thing?
Even in the army?
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Nathan Ross - 02-18-2017
(02-17-2017, 11:40 PM)Mervlvs Wrote: Even in the army?
Why not? Soldiers were very fashionable people!
The problem, of course, is that we don't know whether military fashion followed civilian fashion...
It does occur to me that there might have been a practical purpose to clavi, beyond just looking good - a traditional sleeveless Roman tunic was basically a big square (or broad rectangle) of wool or linen. Very easy, perhaps, when unfolding it and putting it on, to confuse the top and the sides; having clavi down the length of it might have acted as a handy 'this way up' marker... Anyone who's fussed about with putting a plain cover on a duvet may well understand this!
![[Image: tongue.png]](http://cdn.romanarmytalk.com/rat/images/icons/tongue.png){kind=icon}
RE: Tunic with two vertical stripes? - Graham Sumner - 02-18-2017
In my opinion it would be OK for a first or second century AD centurion to have clavi on his tunic. It should also be remembered that centurion rank came in grades. So even if all of them had white tunics and purple clavi those on the higher scale would have better quality tunics and their clavi would certainly be dyed with the better dye.
In the letters of the younger Pliny he gives a friend who is joining the army as a centurion 10,000 denarii to help buy his kit. An average legionary at the time earned 300 denarii a year. This highlights the gulf between ordinary soldiers and their officers and this would be reflected in their military equipment and clothing.
Graham.