Ancient Roman Dog Breeds - Printable Version

Ancient Roman Dog Breeds - Printable Version

+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Ancient Civ Talk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: Ancient Roman Dog Breeds (/showthread.php?tid=2990)

Pages: 1 2

Ancient Roman Dog Breeds - rekirts - 07-11-2003

Does anyone know where I could find information on ancient Roman dogs? Breeds, training, uses and such. I love dogs and would like to include a dog or two in my writing if possible. 
 
Wendy

huge mastiff - JRSCline - 07-12-2003

A friend of mine was telling me, anecdotally, about a show he had watched recently on ancient dog breeds. Apparently the Romans bred an enormous (Great Dane plus size) type of mastiff for hunting, or perhaps sport fighting. The breed has since gone extinct, but supposedly there have been 3 skulls found from this breed. One is on display, I can't remember where. 
 
Of course I have no written source for this, and TV documentaries are always dubious, but can anyone else confirm having heard of this Roman mastiff? 
 
Cheers 
Jenny Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jrscline>JRSCline</A> at: 7/14/03 1:19 am

dogs in the mosaics, walls - richsc - 07-12-2003

One of my projects it to reproduce one of the Cave Canem mosaics from Pompeii. It looks like a medium size dog, black and white, small ears, feathery tail and legs, and looks rather like a border collie, but then, somewhat not like a collie. There are other mosaics too which might be a good source.

Dog breeds - Anonymous - 07-12-2003

Whilst I was looking up something on sheep a while back, I stumbled on a couple of links to sheepdog sites with some mention that the Collie was originally bred by the Romans. I will try to find them again. 
 
Jackie.

Roman dogs - John Maddox Roberts - 07-13-2003

Some breeders believe that the Neopolitan mastiff is the direct descendant of the Molossian war dog. It certainly looks fearsome enough. Writer Andrew Vachss, who raises them, described one as "a 150 pound monster that can bite the top off a fire hydrant." They are the favorite pet of Mafia dons, who closely resemble Roman politicians.

dog - JRSCline - 07-13-2003

Curious, I did a web search on the Molossian war dog and found some good links. Some are more credible than others. 
 
Try this one for direct reference to primary sources: 
 
itsa.ucsf.edu/~snlrc/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/canes/canes.html 
 
Also, check out this Molossian sculpture, the so-called "Dog of Alcibiades," which the British Museum is in the process of buying: 
 
<img src="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1470000/images/_1471986_dog150.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Cheers 
Jenny 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jrscline>JRSCline</A> at: 7/14/03 1:34 am

Re: dog - Anonymous - 07-16-2003

 
I looked up the collie but couldn't find those links I thought I saw before so maybe I didn't see what I thought I saw. 
There are a lot of references to Roman 'cattle dogs' (the Molossian mentioned above?) and a lot of claims that the Great Dane and Rotweiler are descended from these. 
One dog breed I found that is around today and claimed to be a dog the Romans knew is the Maltese known in classical times as 'canis melitae'. 
This is one site about this dog that refers to the classical authors that mentioned it: 
www.annasheavanlymaltese....story.html 
Mind you, it does seem as if it would have been more of a Roman 'fashion accessory' rather than a breed your average macho centurio would have possessed! 
Also, I wondered about the greyhound as it seems to resemble the dogs found in ancient Egyptian art.

Re: dog - rekirts - 07-17-2003

Got this from a site about English Shepherd dogs: 
 
"Legend states, this hard working, herding dog decended from the Roman Cattle Dog that traveled with Caesar and his army in 55 B.C., across Europe. As the cattle were eaten by Caesars's troops, extra dogs were left along the way and interbred with local dogs. The cattle dogs became part of the Great Britain Highland herding dog tradition. Out of the group, the smaller dogs that developed the strong eye, and crouching position, became what is called the Border Collie, the larger shepherds with the "loose eye" were called Farm Shepherds or Farm Collies. The term "collie" meant black; the sturdy black faced highland sheep were called collie sheep." 
 
This shows a simplified collie family tree: 
 
izebug.syr.edu/~gsbisco/ftree.htm 
 
So it looks like the collie's ancestors are ancient British and Roman dogs. Both my dogs fit in to that family tree 'cause one is part shetland sheepdog and the other is part Australian cattle dog. 
 
As for greyhouds, the following is from the link Jenny posted: 
 
Around AD 150, Arrian wrote Cynegeticus ("The Hunter"), a supplement in Greek to the manual of the same name attributed to Xenophon, written five hundred and fifty years earlier. Indicating how hunting and hounds have changed in that time, Arrian describes the Vertragus, a Celtic breed named for their swiftness, and ancestor of the modern greyhound. (Grattius, too, writes that "great glory exalts the far-distant Celtic dogs," and refers to the Vertragus, "swifter than thought or a winged bird it runs, pressing hard on the beasts it has found.") 
 
If you go to that link and click on the first 'Veretragus' you will see a really neat sculpture. 
 
Wendy 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rekirts>rekirts</A> at: 7/17/03 1:32 pm

Re: dog - Anonymous - 08-11-2003

For what it's worth, I've heard that dalmatians were used, if not first bred, by the Romans. Also, the big ugly dog the French call a "molosse," evidently a mastiff, was much in evidence in Imperial Roman times. 
I have a tangential question: I never saw any evidence of those irritating little yappy dogs the mediaeval French, and their heirs, the English, nobility, showed on their tombs until they themselves did it. Where did the rot start? Did the Romans have any such vermin around them? I doubt it, as it looks, from tomb sculptures, like they were basically footwarmers for northern European winters. Any data? 
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. JM

Re: Ancient Roman Dog Breeds - richsc - 08-11-2003

I'm sure I've seen mosaics of little yappy type dogs. The famous Pompeian mosaic of what looks like a border collie is a medium sized dog anyway. 
 
And Salve Josh! glad to have you here Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc>Richsc</A> at: 8/12/03 6:41 am

we are siamese... - JRSCline - 08-12-2003

Maybe the tiny breeds were oriental imports? The Romans seem to have imported everything else they could from the East, why not dogs? 
 
Cheers 
Jenny

woof woof - venicone - 08-12-2003

some doggie images from Roman mosaics 
 
<img src="http://www.ttforumfriends.com/images/forum/Imgp0685.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
<img src="http://www.ttforumfriends.com/images/forum/Imgp0656.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
<img src="http://www.ttforumfriends.com/images/forum/Imgp0641.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://www.ttforumfriends.com/images/forum/co.gif"/> 
 
[url=http://pub55.ezboard.com/btalkinghistory" target="top]Talking History Forum[/url]

Re: woof woof - Lepidina - 09-03-2003

Jumping in a little late because I've been going through the back posts: 
 
Greyhounds, or an earlier form of greyhound, were around as far back as the Egyptians. The pharoah hound, which is still around today, also goes back over 5000 years. They look like greyhounds with longer necks and ears that stand up. Other sighthound breeds like the whippet, Italian greyhound, Basenji, saluki, Afghan hound, and Azawakh (I think that's how it's spelled - African sighthound) are also "old" breeds. Each of them comes from a different part of Africa and were used by different peoples for hunting but they all have existed since before the Romans. 
 
I don't think it would be such a stretch for a wealthy Roman to have an "exotic" hunting dog but obviously, these dogs wouldn't be used in battles. 
 
Woof! 
 
Deb

Re: dogs in the mosaics, walls - Primitivus - 04-01-2006

Quote:One of my projects it to reproduce one of the Cave Canem mosaics from Pompeii. It looks like a medium size dog, black and white, small ears, feathery tail and legs, and looks rather like a border collie, but then, somewhat not like a collie.

As the proud owner of border collies, I would say the main parallel to the primary Pompeii mosaic is coloration. The latter is heftier than today's sheep-herding dogs. I've seen a couple other mosaics which (like my avatar) reveal somewhat more slender dogs. Makes me curious about what sorts of different breeds existed during the Roman era. (It's inconceivable that only one breed existed, as some pseudo-historians allege.)

Re: dog - Primitivus - 04-01-2006

Quote:...those irritating little yappy dogs...

Most of my family refers to them as fake dogs. (No offense to those of you who love them, and my daughter and her husband have a Jack Russell Terrier which is a sweet, super-high-energy tiny dog.) I prefer "real" dogs. Not sure I'd like a warrior canine, but one who could protect the domus would be nice. A dog who merits the warning: Cave Canum!