New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? (/showthread.php?tid=28557) Pages:
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RE: New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? - Paul Bardunias - 11-02-2016 (11-02-2016, 04:15 AM)Paullus Scipio Wrote: "Sorry, Paul, but I believe both these statements are incorrect. It is indeed a decorative nipple, described as such:" RE: New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? - Paullus Scipio - 11-03-2016 Paul B. wrote: Quote:"Sorry, Paul, but I believe both these statements are incorrect. It is indeed a decorative nipple, described as such:" The same place they are on your second image!!........ As can be seen the artist has left off the detail of the tie-downs altogether – something that frequently occurs, so iconography alone cannot be conclusive. And again you are comparing ‘apples and pears’; 5 C hoplite equipment to 3 C and later cavalry officer’s equipment. The “real thing”, such as the Corfu iron cuirass (my previous last image) is conclusive..... Quote:Even if this were a bronze cuirasse I would contend that these are stylized tie-downs not nipples. The last image you posted shows almost the same- note they are way to low down to be nipples as well. They are not rings, most of the hoplite images I know of show studs, not rings. The thong is tied below the stud. see below. The artist here has just not left a gap between the stud and the base material. There actually is not much of a gap even in the real ones, they thong must be snugged up below the rivet. The last image is of an iron Officer’s cuirass from Dodona ( I think), 3 C BC, and your comments are again incorrect – my fault, I should have posted the images below earlier ( see below). The gilded (probably) fittings show up well. You can see the ‘epomides’ tie downs which have rings, upper and lower (the ring is missing from the lower RHS), and outside these, the decorative nipples. The fitting at the side is another ring fitting which closed the cuirass, fastening to a corresponding ring on the backplate. Quote: I didn’t say that it did not (probably) have its origins in a functional item, but equally it could be decorative/symbolic of rank. Depictions of Hoplites with belts are extremely rare, I believe. How do you know this depiction is not an early example of an officer tying his symbol of Office? Some believe it is of Persian origin, copied by Alexander because of A. being referred to as wearing a ‘Persian girdle/sash’ in Plutarch[Alexander 51] and Diodorus [XVII.77.5] over a white robe – but this is in the context of courtly dress, and not in the context of armour, so I don’t think it likely. One more feature which points to a metal cuirass is the 'squared off' shape of the armholes ( see attachments to my post of Oct 16, characteristic of metal cuirasses, but not 'spolades' ) As to knots, you have said yourself one of the weaknesses of the “knot of Hercules” ( a.k. reef knot or square knot ) – others are its tendency to come undone, and to collapse into a double ‘lark’s head’ knot. It is a very untrustworthy knot. I recommend you use a ‘double bow’ knot on your tiedowns......much safer and more reliable. “......I’m sorry you’re wrong” RE: New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? - Adventurous Artisan - 01-21-2020 (10-14-2016, 01:50 AM)richsc Wrote: Just saw this, and not sure if you have seen it yet: Sorry to hop on this thread so late, but where did you get the picture in the op and is it in the public domain? Levi RE: New Bronze hoplite cavalryman? - Feinman - 09-28-2021 On the bronze equestrian statue (which is very detailed), if you take a look at the ends of the ptyreges, you can see that they appear to show cords or thick yarns (warp cords or threads, if even a fringe), springing from beneath their linen covers --there is even a hem on the ends of the ptyrege facings and possibly a row of sewing at the end to sew the hem to the cords. Cords, arms sticking through stuff --I see them all :-) |