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Show here your Roman soldier impression - Printable Version

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Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Caballo - 02-21-2008

Salvianus

That new tunic in your winter patrol looks superb. Any chance of some close ups/ how it was made etc ? Very nice indeed - laudes!
Cheers

Caballo


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-21-2008

Many thanks for the compliment: It's applied machine woven upholstery fabric - I like it a lot, but it's not as nice as one of the integral woven ones Big Grin

I'll try attaching some shots :?

OK that didn't work: wasn't there a step by step somewhere?

<img src="http://pics.livejournal.com/salvianus/pic/000d7ctz" width=480 border=1 height=1029 title="Salvianus New Year 2008" >

OK Semagic code isn't it, I'll try the method in one's signature:

[Image: 000da5yx]

nope

[img]"http://pics.livejournal.com/salvianus/pic/000da5yx"[/img]

OK, I give up, here are the links:

http://pics.livejournal.com/salvianus/pic/000d7ctz

http://pics.livejournal.com/salvianus/pic/000dbe24

http://pics.livejournal.com/salvianus/pic/000dc8ek

:roll:


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Caballo - 02-22-2008

Thanks! I'm making my own one, and this was really helpful.
Cheers
Caballo


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-22-2008

The hardest part is the clavi ends - we went with a cross end because of the pattern in the cloth, but the loosely woven cloth has a tendency to fray when it's thin or cut on a curve.

The placing of the segmenta is tricky - effectively we had a test run with a linen one last summer and my brilliant wife worked out what would look right when worn by me, rather than flat. We also discovered a happy medium between my first long tunic and my second short one and made the whole thing a lot wider - the fine wool then hangs in big folds.

My current system is to wear my first plain segmenta (I must decorate those!) linen camisia for working under sub & mail and/or plain wool dalmatic for cold weather and change into my second linen tunic for camp duties and LH and save my best tunic for parades etc.

Good luck with yours Smile


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Robert Vermaat - 02-22-2008

Very nice pictures Ste!


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-22-2008

Thanks Robert,

Helen has encouraged me to add a couple more points: it's cut in one piece with the arms included, not sewn on and she tells me this makes it hang better. Also the hand sewn hems also make it hang more naturally than machined.

We looked for a long time to find clavi end shapes that would work with the cloth we had, rather than aiming for the classic pendate ends: there was so much variety implied by the diverse finds on the web collections referenced elswhere on the site that one can hopefully find something that's right for your cloth.

I chose applied machine woven designs because, for a cheap option I think they are closer in spirit to the (re)applied original examples and I happened to find a cloth that looked, from a distance, like the design might be woven into the tunic fabric. The big problem with figural designs is finding symmetrical pictures for the orbiculi.

curate ut valeatis


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-22-2008

Well, that blows my plan then, the cloth I bought wit hclavi would require the sleeves sewn on in order to use the clavi on the sleeves as well! Sad


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-22-2008

Quote:Well, that blows my plan then, the cloth I bought wit hclavi would require the sleeves sewn on in order to use the clavi on the sleeves as well! Sad

It's not the end of the world: the integral clavi are going to look superb. While integral sleeves are common, I'm pretty sure sewn sleeves are also authentic: this web site cites c4/5th sewn sleeves:

http://www.iub.edu/~iuam/online_modules ... /tech.html

optime vale


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Franklin - 02-22-2008

Yes, toward the later centuries (4th/5th) Coptic weavers wised up and began crafting tunics in pieces. This cut down on the wasted warp thread, but more importantly it meant a loom small enough to be worked by one person, rather than two or three. Much more efficient. These later tunics would have seams down the bottom of the arms, on top of the shoulders, down the armpits, and (seemingly odd) down only ONE side of the torso. The torso's at this point were folded at the side to form a "tube" rather than folded vertically as before.


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-22-2008

Thanks for the info gents, Smile

Well, I will have to cheat there, and have seams on both sids of the torso and the shoulders. : The clavi run vertically?


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Franklin - 02-22-2008

Quote:The clavi run vertically?

Not sure I understand your question. When worn as a tunic the clavi run vertically, just as before. But in both cases they're woven side-to-side. This photo from Ste's link may explain it.

[Image: tunicpiece.gif]


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-22-2008

Thanks, that is exactly what I ment! Worn vertically! 8)


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-22-2008

Quote:The clavi run vertically?

They do indeed: here are some rough designs from our group site -

http://www.comitatus.net/tunic_construction.htm

Links to many photos of originals:

http://sammlungen.mak.at/maksdbweb/serv ... state?id=4

Search 'Zierstreifen' & then order by date to find the most relevant examples of clavi or ''Zierstück' to get orbiculi/tabulae (not all from tunics). Interestingly, the woollen tunics seem to be mostly red,
while the linen are mostly undyed off-white.

And a smaller one:
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/advanced.aspx

and choose the Category 'Clothing'

Hope that helps Big Grin


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-22-2008

Cheers, I have seen some of this info, but am wondering if these kind of tunics were also used in the late second century?

Cezary is making me a red tunic at the moment, but no clavi!
I havesome of his off white with red clavi which i plan on doing a tunic with too tho, so will probably try this style.

It seems a lot of people use longer sleeves than this suggests?
Also it looks as tho Sumners depictions all have full length sleeves?
This is where I get confused. :?


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Salvianus - 02-22-2008

Quote:wondering if these kind of tunics were also used in the late second century?

It seems a lot of people use longer sleeves than this suggests?
Also it looks as tho Sumners depictions all have full length sleeves?
This is where I get confused. :?

I'm afraid I don't know of the C2nd - early sleeves are short and I think they were long by the mid 3rd but I don't know when they changed.

The pictures are deceptive, because the bodies are wide: Graham Sumner gives some typical dimensions including some around a metre across. Mine is knee length unbelted and just reaches my wrists at the full width of the cloth: 60 inches. Smile