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Show here your Roman soldier impression - Printable Version

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Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - John M McDermott - 09-26-2005

Done! Also, here is a 1st c. using a paenula in the method seen on several reliefs.

[Image: Picture126.jpg]


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - FAVENTIANVS - 11-30-2005

How come did you make the shield relieves?


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - John M McDermott - 11-30-2005

They are made of leather.

Also, see this thread: http://www.romanarmy.nl/rat/viewtopic.p ... de59dfd4ef


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - FAVENTIANVS - 12-01-2005

Interesting... thanx!


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Iulia Cassia Vegetia - 12-22-2005

Also, I have attempted to achieve the tunic pleat with mixed results.
Very well done, John...
I wonder if the pleats in the original depictions were in fact a result of the way the cloth was woven. I have some East Indian cotton that has pleats naturally woven into the fabric for example. I have seen some types of linen fabric in Italy with those same "pleats".

[Image: Picture124.jpg]


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - FAVENTIANVS - 12-22-2005

It's not me who made it, but John McDermott :!: :wink:


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Iulia Cassia Vegetia - 12-22-2005

Oops, my apologies, Faventianus. My eyes skipped down when I was reading the post. I will fix the error.

okay, it's fixed now, thanks Smile


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Tarbicus - 12-22-2005

Quote:I have seen some types of linen fabric in Italy with those same "pleats".
Iulia, can you give some more info on that please?


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - John M McDermott - 12-22-2005

I have been thinking about just this subject. I notice gabardine fabric drapes very nicely, whereas not every fabric does that. Holger Ratsdorf has pointed out to me that German weavers of the Roman era were of the highest order, which is why Romans adopted the Sagum. Note also that the vast majority of the steles with pleats come from the Rhineland. This changes the way I think of the quality of tunic fabric.


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Tarbicus - 12-22-2005

Quote:... I notice gabardine fabric drapes very nicely ... Holger Ratsdorf has pointed out to me that German weavers of the Roman era were of the highest order, .... Note also that the vast majority of the steles with pleats come from the Rhineland. ...
Nice one John Big Grin If correct that makes the pieces fall together, and at the very least the connection makes sense.


Italian Linen - Iulia Cassia Vegetia - 12-23-2005

My father use to buy fabric in Italy and have suits made. I was young at the time, maybe 11 years old, (I am 46 now) but if memory serves me well, I remember going with him to one fabric shop and seeing linen that looked similar to some of the Indian cottons that I described earlier in that it looked wrinkly. It wasn't exactly pleated-rather, the fabric had irregular folds along its length. The linen was very fine and lightweight. (Even at a young age, I had a fascination with fabrics and ancient costume Smile )

I hope this helps.


Re: Italian Linen - tlclark - 12-27-2005

Quote:My father use to buy fabric in Italy and have suits made. I was young at the time, maybe 11 years old, (I am 46 now) but if memory serves me well, I remember going with him to one fabric shop and seeing linen that looked similar to some of the Indian cottons that I described earlier in that it looked wrinkly. It wasn't exactly pleated-rather, the fabric had irregular folds along its length. The linen was very fine and lightweight. (Even at a young age, I had a fascination with fabrics and ancient costume Smile )

I hope this helps.

Iulia,

Is this gathering caused by certain strands of the weave shrinking, causing the material to be gathered? For example, if along the selvage a thread was pulled, as in a running stitch, OR, if just naturally shrunk it would create a gathered/pleated surface.

I see lots of what appeared to be gathered seams in Roman clothing in statuary, particularly high-end statuary in the round, and I am trying to determine if it is a stylistic convention, or if the sculpture is accurately depicting natural cloth. If so, I am trying to figure out if it is intentionally gathered, as with a pulled running stitch, or whether if it is a product of the natural material.

Any ideas?

Also, you do ceramics right? Great stuff. Have you ever made any molded Arrentine ware?

Travis


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Iulia Cassia Vegetia - 12-27-2005

Salve Travis,
I honestly don't know. My guess though is that it is a result of washing the fabric and then rolling it onto the bolt.
RE ceramics: I would LOVE to make molded Arretine ware, but alas, to do it properly, I would have to take a plaster cast of an original piece. So until I find a way to do that, I will not be making any.
But thank you for the lovely compliment on my work Big Grin


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - tlclark - 12-28-2005

Quote:Salve Travis,
I honestly don't know. My guess though is that it is a result of washing the fabric and then rolling it onto the bolt.

I am going to be making a 1st C. tunic with gathered seams and I wanted to try out various techniques. I think gathers, either intentionally made or a product of the material explain a lot of the pleats we see in Roman clothes, so I wanted to get your opinion.

Quote:RE ceramics: I would LOVE to make molded Arretine ware, but alas, to do it properly, I would have to take a plaster cast of an original piece. So until I find a way to do that, I will not be making any.
But thank you for the lovely compliment on my work Big Grin

What would it take? What if someone had a reproduction of arrentine ware? The surviving molds are all in terra cotta, which shrinks as it dries, so you can't make a terracotta mold of something already fired very easily, but I suspect the artisan's back then were just as good at modeling in the negative as in the positive, so the mold is probably the original.

Well my interest is more than academic. I think that many pieces of armor were molded leather and I am wondering if terracotta molds were used to make leather forms, so I'm looking for someone with experience making one.

Also, have you ever made any bird-incised Byzantine glazed ware or pilgrimage flasks? I love your canteens and campware, I would love to have some in a byzantine style.


Re: Show here your roman soldier impression - Iulia Cassia Vegetia - 12-28-2005

"This message may be monitored by George W. Bush for the purposes of national security and quality control"ROFLMAIO (rolling on the floor laughing my Italian ass off)

"arrentine"
I thought I could be wrong, soI checked the spelling on it in my books, and it's Arretine, no "n"-after pieces found in Arezzo, northern Italy.

If someone had a GOOD REPRODUCTION, I would make a plaster cast first . To avoid the shrinkage problem, I would then use a high grog clay, which shrinks very little, to make the final piece. My regular clay shrinks 10%-a high grog clay (grog is finely ground fired clay)shrinks maybe 3%, depending on content. The only concern is tht the grog would not allow me to have a smooth, burnished surface.

Alternately, I would make a REALLY REALLY good copy that was 10% larger, and take a cast of IT, and then use the mold with my regular clay, which is very smooth and finely grained. Understand that the "mold" would consist of a bowl which I would place on the wheel and in which I would center the clay and then press it against the sides, thus impressing designs on the outside of the piece.

Romans also used clay cylinders with designs impressed in them, and rolled them along the vessel to decorate them. Yet another way was Barbotine, that is, adding the decoration afterwards, much as one would decorate a cake.

With LEATHER though, my guess is that WOOD molds were used, much as they are today in the making of a good saddle.

Good luck in your fabric reasearch-I'm really curious about what you come up with.

Right now, I'm doing some heavy-duty research into making clay cookpots that work over an open fire. We had one from Italy that lasted 2 years with heavy use before it finally died, and we were able to put it on an electric burner regularly. I have had 5 cookpot failures up until now, and I think that it's the clay itself-so I am trying a different clay body. I just bought some Raku clay-which is able to withstand thermal shock. We shall see...

Also, have you ever made any bird-incised Byzantine glazed ware or pilgrimage flasks? I love your canteens and campware, I would love to have some in a Byzantine style.
Please, DO send me a picture-I can copy just about anything in clay, and if you're really interested, I'd give it a try.