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Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - caiusbeerquitius - 03-25-2015
Hi all!
I am looking for sources about the cruelty of Roman legionaries. So far I skimmed Fl. Iosephus, thought about the people being cut open in search for gold - but that were auxiliaries, as it seems. Anyone having some good ideas?
Thanks! C. =)
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Timus - 03-25-2015
Not sure if that's within your timeframe of interest.
In the 7th or 8th book of Caesar's BG, he orders his soldiers to cut off the hands of every prisoner from the siege of Uxelodun (not sure about the spelling). We're talking about several thousand prisonners, so it's safe to assume his legionaries (no auxiliary regiment back then anyway) were the one tasked with doing it.
A few years later during the civil war after the battle of Munda, he also had his men buid a wall of corpses around an besieged town.
Then, there is also that massacre of a couple of german tribes in Gaul in book IV.
Also a couple of weeks ago, somebody opened a thread about punishments in the late roman army. Some of that stuff was down right cruel.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Michael J. Taylor - 03-25-2015
As far as I know some of the most grisly evidence for Roman cruelty comes from skeletal evidence recovered from Valencia Spain, which was violently sacked after Pompeian forces recaptured it from Sertorious. Several skeletons were methodically dismembered (in the manner described by Polybius 10.15), and an elderly man seems to have been sodomized to death with a pilum. Very awful stuff.
The article, in Spanish, can be found here:
https://www.academia.edu/3862003/LA_DESTRUCCIÓN_DE_VALENTIA_POR_POMPEYO_75_a.C._
I am not sure, however, that the Romans were any more cruel than the other peoples of the Mediterranean iron age. The ancient world was a race to the bottom as far as cruelty was concerned. That said, I am under no doubts that Roman warfare was abysmally savage.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - John W Davison - 03-26-2015
You could try to locate a copy of this, but it is pretty old (Uni of Chicago 1938) and I think you would need to access a decent university library:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atrocities-Roman-warfare-133-B-C/dp/B0008861XO/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427358555&sr=1-1
Regards, John
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - ValentinianVictrix - 03-26-2015
Ammianus records several incidents of cruetly by troops. I know there are references to complaints made about legionaries treatment of towns people and even if convicted of the ill-treatment they were given very light sentences but I cannot remember where I read these I'm afraid.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Alanus - 03-26-2015
The hand-lopping incident was in Uxelodumun. At Avaricum, Caesar had the entire population killed, not just including babies but even dogs. On another wondrous occasion, he had every nobleman of the Venetti beheaded. Still more grit: near the banks of the Rhine, Caesar's legions slaughtered 350,000 German men, women, and children.
All these incidents were accurately recorded by Caesar himself (The Gallic Wars). Lovely guy. 8+)
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Hasdrubal - 03-27-2015
Times were crazy in the late republic. Marius and Sulla's civil war, Sulla's purge. Caesar's Gallic wars followed by Caesar and Pompey's civil war, followed up by more war.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - MagnusStultus - 03-27-2015
It depends on if you include with direct orders or are just looking for examples of Roman soldiers going on a rampage out of greed/cruelty/lust.
An example of against orders is during the sack of Carthage when a Roman unit sacked a temple.
Another example of obeying orders is the enslavement of the Numantines.
Roman army cruelty was usually with orders and pragmatic. Caesar was as capable of mercy as cruelty for example,
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Hasdrubal - 03-27-2015
Quote:Caesar was as capable of mercy as cruelty for example,
Aemelius Paullus Macedonicus was one of Romes last general in the republic that held the same honor of the consuls of the beginning republic. Look at what he and his legions did to Epirus at the end of the 3rd Macedonian war.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Bryan - 03-28-2015
Quote:The hand-lopping incident was in Uxelodumun. At Avaricum, Caesar had the entire population killed, not just including babies but even dogs. On another wondrous occasion, he had every nobleman of the Venetti beheaded. Still more grit: near the banks of the Rhine, Caesar's legions slaughtered 350,000 German men, women, and children.
All these incidents were accurately recorded by Caesar himself (The Gallic Wars). Lovely guy. 8+)
What instance did Caesar's army kill 350,000 men women and children on the Rhine?
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Hasdrubal - 03-28-2015
Great double tap. Mod please delete this post.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Hasdrubal - 03-28-2015
Quote:What instance did Caesar's army kill 350,000 men women and children on the Rhine?
I believe it was during the Gallic campaign. Caesar had a temporary truce with them I believe. They attacked Caesar's men and killed their horses while they had them out feeding/watering them.
Caesar then waged war among them.
He barricaded them in their city and starved them out. They sent their women and children out because they knew they were screwed. Caesar denied them their freedom and killed them if they tried to come out, and killed them if they tried to re-enter. Needless to say they starved to death.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Timus - 03-28-2015
not exactly.
It's in BG book IV. There were negotiations going on, then something went wrong as Aaron wrote it, Caesar blamed it on them obviously, and he moved in with his legions, caught them unaware and had the whole Usipete and Tencteris (once again, not sure about the spelling) tribes put to the sword. Every single one of them.
So ruthless that his nemesis in Rome, Cato, even suggested in front of the senate to deliver Caesar to the barbarians to avoid the "wrath of the gods".
That bit about the siege and the civilians caught between the siege lines is from Alesia, so 2 years later I think. Caesar let them starve to death. Although after the siege, he did release most of the prisoners back to their tribe to win back the Aedui and Arverni which were 2 of the main players in Gaul back them.
Then the next year, Uxelodumun happened.
Oh well, ave Caesar.
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Bryan - 03-28-2015
I'm reading Caes. BG 4.1-15, just not seeing where 350,000 are reported killed. He said there were 430,000 total before the battle, but doesn't specify how many perished, at least not from what I've seen. A lot appeared to have survived, he states:
"Caesar gave to the Germans detained in camp permission to depart; but they, fearing punishments and tortures at the hand of the Gauls whose lands they had harassed, said that they would stay in his company, and he gave them liberty to do so."
Roman Army Cruelty - Sources? - Timus - 03-28-2015
My understanding is that the ones that stayed with him are the chiefs and elders that came to him after the skirmish.
The rest, the way Caesar tells the story, was either put to the swords or drown in the Meuse river though he doesn't give an explicit headcount the way he did for the Helvetis in book I.
As a side note, my (french) edition gives a slightly different meaning to your quote. And yours seem to make a little bit more sense.