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Complexion of the roman emperors - Renatus - 01-31-2015
Quote:our modern 'blonde' might be too narrow a definition.Maybe 'fair-haired' would be suitably indeterminate.
EDIT It looks as if Macedon and I were posting simultaneously.
Complexion of the roman emperors - AMELIANVS - 06-09-2015
http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/romanemperors.htm
Complexion of the roman emperors - Condottiero Magno - 06-09-2015
Quote:http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/romanemperors.htmI don't think Karl Earlson is a sound source...
Complexion of the roman emperors - AMELIANVS - 06-10-2015
I dont care about some Karl Earlson.I mainly posted it because of that table which clearly states Roman authors own remarqes about Imperial complexions.
Complexion of the roman emperors - Alanus - 06-16-2015
I really can't add much in the Roman context, but it seems possible that our modern assumption that Romans were dark and swarthy might come from too many hours watching Sicilian gangster movies. Throughout the broad spectrum of antiquity, many nationalities were known to have blonde and red-headed individuals. From my eastern research, many Iranian-speaking cultures had their share of blondes-- all the way to China-- the Tarim Yue-chi, the Saka, the Wusun, were all described by Sima Quan and several eastern historians as being blonde, red haired, with either blue or green eyes. Then why not the Romans or Greeks? :whistle:
Complexion of the roman emperors - Urselius - 06-17-2015
A very recent Nature paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14507.html
suggests that an Early Bronze Age culture from the Pontic Steppe the Yamnaya Culture may have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. Interestingly the latest ancient DNA work seems to suggest that ancestral Europeans, especially in the Mesolithic, were dark-skinned with light eyes, the Yamnaya people in contrast, the above paper suggests, were light-skinned but dark-eyed. The later Europeans being the result of admixture, light skin becoming rapidly fixed in the population, but eye colour remaining more mixed (with a N-S cline) to the present day. The Yamnaya may also have been the originators of the European lactose-digestion persistence mutation, an obvious advantage to a pastoral cattle-herding people.
All in all a bit of a kick in the balls for the blond-blue-eyed-pale-skinned Aryan myth beloved of Hitler et alia., if, as the DNA evidence suggests, pale eyes and pale skin had entirely different origins, in different populations.
Complexion of the roman emperors - Dan D'Silva - 06-17-2015
So the "Nordic race" is mixed-race... neat.
Complexion of the roman emperors - Alanus - 06-18-2015
That's it, Dan. Every so-called "race" is totally "impure"... just the way it is and ought to be.
mile:
Complexion of the roman emperors - Condottiero Magno - 08-28-2015
Quote:A very recent Nature paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14507.htmlCannot access the above paper without a subscription, so does it also cover this theory? Europeans drawn from three ancient 'tribes'
suggests that an Early Bronze Age culture from the Pontic Steppe the Yamnaya Culture may have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. Interestingly the latest ancient DNA work seems to suggest that ancestral Europeans, especially in the Mesolithic, were dark-skinned with light eyes, the Yamnaya people in contrast, the above paper suggests, were light-skinned but dark-eyed. The later Europeans being the result of admixture, light skin becoming rapidly fixed in the population, but eye colour remaining more mixed (with a N-S cline) to the present day. The Yamnaya may also have been the originators of the European lactose-digestion persistence mutation, an obvious advantage to a pastoral cattle-herding people.
All in all a bit of a kick in the balls for the blond-blue-eyed-pale-skinned Aryan myth beloved of Hitler et alia., if, as the DNA evidence suggests, pale eyes and pale skin had entirely different origins, in different populations.
"Hunters and gatherers get vitamin D through their food - because animals have a lot of it. But once you're farming, you don't get a lot of it, and once you switch to agriculture, there's strong natural selection to lighten your skin so that when it's hit by sunlight you can synthesise vitamin D."
Complexion of the roman emperors - LonginusXXI - 09-17-2015
Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.
Complexion of the roman emperors - Robert Vermaat - 09-17-2015
Quote:Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.
Possibly, but why 'would'?
Complexion of the roman emperors - Renatus - 09-17-2015
Quote:In this famous portrait of Severus and his family, he appears significantly darker-skinned than his wife and sons:James Ajiduah post=370166 Wrote:Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.
Possibly, but why 'would'?
[attachment=12825]SeptimiusSeverusfamily.jpg[/attachment]
RE: Complexion of the roman emperors - helinleger - 01-27-2021
(06-17-2015, 09:19 AM)Urselius Wrote: A very recent Nature paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14507.html
suggests that an Early Bronze Age culture from the Pontic Steppe the Yamnaya Culture may have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. Interestingly the latest ancient DNA work seems to suggest that ancestral Europeans, especially in the Mesolithic, were dark-skinned with light eyes, the Yamnaya people in contrast, the above paper suggests, were light-skinned but dark-eyed. The later Europeans being the result of admixture, light skin becoming rapidly fixed in the population, but eye colour remaining more mixed (with a N-S cline) to the present day. The Yamnaya may also have been the originators of the European lactose-digestion persistence mutation, an obvious advantage to a pastoral cattle-herding people.
All in all a bit of a kick in the balls for the blond-blue-eyed-pale-skinned Aryan myth beloved of Hitler et alia., if, as the DNA evidence suggests, pale eyes and pale skin had entirely different origins, in different populations.
Well, he likely wouldn’t have passed airport profiling very well. The Mediterranean saw a lot of mixing before Septimius Severus was born and it saw a lot of mixing after that, too. As far as we can tell, he would have been dark-haired and dark-eyed, with a very deep tan. Sub-Saharan African? No. African? Yes. Ditto Augustine. There are a lot of different kinds of Africans and there were two thousand years ago, as well.
RE: Complexion of the roman emperors - Till_When? - 05-31-2021
Weren't physical descriptions also used to improve (or ruin) the public image of a person? For example, in Middle English and French, any "good" person would be described as fair haired and with a light complexion, while everyone "bad" would be described as being dark like night, with the reasoning behind these descriptions being that light comes from God, so anyone good is light skinned and haired because God's light shines through them.
And with that in mind, could such beliefs have influenced the writings of late Roman/Christian era writers?