\'sarcina\' documentation - Printable Version

\'sarcina\' documentation - Printable Version

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\'sarcina\' documentation - Carlton Bach - 12-08-2004

Salve 
 
I intend to make a proper sarcina during the holidays this year. The pattern isn't all that much of a problem (I have the Junkelmann one and found instructions on the Legio XX homepage), but I'm curious to see what it's based on. There has got to be a find behind this. Can anyone point me in the right direction? What kind of leather was used, how treated, what sewing material (linen thread, I assume?) and what stitch? What size were the metal rings? Brass or iron? 
 
Any help appreciated. 
 
Volker

Sarcina - Mithras - 12-08-2004

I'm sorry I'm not answering your question, but I've just finished my marching pack and I'm damn proud of my growing leatherwork! Damn my fingertips ache! 
 
Its since grown a carry handle in addition to the shoulder strap. 
 
img.photobucket.com/album...CF1645.jpg 
 
I know that fragments were found at Bar Hill in Scotland, but I've not seen those fragments. 
 
 
- Paul Elliott Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mithras@romanarmytalk>Mithras</A> at: 12/9/04 12:03 am

Re: Sarcina - Sassanid - 12-08-2004

Paul, 
 
Coincidence, I just waxed mine today. I did toy with idea of using lard as I did on my boots, but decided on the advice of Nodge (and the missus) to use Beeswax. 
 
I am now full steam ahead for next year. Last night I oiled, and put a new grip on my pilum. 
 
Andrew

Re: Sarcina - Anonymous - 12-08-2004

Ave, 
I also can not exactly answer your question, I've never seen a picture of the find. I do remember reading (here I think) that it is flat, like an envelope, and not conclusively a military bag. Seems like the best evidence is Trajans column, where they appear flat around the edges, but stuffed full in the middle. Most that people make are variations on the envelope theme, and most people seem to add a little thickness. 
 
Yours looks really nice. I like the scallopy detail for the tie strap. You can see a picture of mine, partway down this page- www.florentius.com/impedimenta.htm I used a cowskin that was a little on the stiff side and stabbed my finger thousands of time while stitching it, even with prepunched holes. 
Vale, Florentius

Re: Sarcina - Anonymous - 12-09-2004

Besides the pattern shown on Matt Amt's site and the panels from Trajan's column, a good reference for the marching pack is "The mule of a soldier" by N. Fuentes, which appears in Vol. 2 of JRMES. Within this article is an excellent drawing of how the studded ring should attach to the straps. 
 
Why am at it, here's mine: 
 
66.66.131.145/roman/loculus_front.jpg 
 
It's made from oiled goatskin. 
 
The studded ring I purchased from Raymond's Quiet Press: 
 
www.quietpress.com/Roman_...lt_Fi.html 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=neuralmancer>Neuralmancer</A> at: 12/9/04 3:12 am

Re: Sarcina - Lucius Aurelius Metellus - 12-09-2004

Here is mine: 
 
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/LuciusLoculus2.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Lucius Aurelius Metellus, draconarius, Secunda Brittanica

Re: Sarcina - Mithras - 12-09-2004

Hi Andrew, 
 
You say you waxed your sarcina? When I make anything out of leather I oil it, with neatsfoot and then with some olive oil to darken the colour a bit. Does waxing waterproof it? Does it change the colour? What's the best way to wax leather - brush hot wax on? 
 
How did you find the lard on your boots? Did it do the job? 
 
Sorry to be so inqusitive - but I'd really like to know! Paul Elliott 
 
Heroes of Delphi - Classical Greece gone D20 
Zenobia - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire 
Warlords of Alexander - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire 
 
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html

Thanks! - Carlton Bach - 12-10-2004

Great pictures. They all seem to be made of rather stiff, thick leather. I'm wondering if that would be necessary. But the ring closure arrangement is certainly nifty. 
 
As to stabbing fingers - I did that a lot, too, when I started working with leather, but I found sewing thick leather (up to sole leather thickness) works very well if you use blunt-pointed, sturdy embroidery needles and make your holes with an awl. Every two or three stabs, jab the awl into a lump of wax. It passes through the leather much more easily. (watch out you don't stab your finger while holding the wax, though...) 
 
For treating thick leather, I had some good experience with a mix of linseed oil and beeswax (8 parts oil, two parts wax). Melt them together, then cool. You get a thick-ish paste that darkens the leather nicely and leaves a wax coating. It also makes it stiffer, though. 
 
Volker

Re: Sarcina - Sassanid - 12-10-2004

Hi Paul, 
 
I just warmed some beeswax and applied with a brush and cloth. It did change the colour slightly, but not very much. 
 
The lard on the other hand made my boots very much darker. A beautiful shade of dark tan. The smell was terrible during the application stage, but since then I have noticed no untoward smells (about 9 months). 
 
Both methods will fully waterproof the leather. 
 
On olive oil, I was warned off it. I was told it goes rancid after a while. I don't have any neatsfoot oil, and have in fact never used it. I do though have tung oil which I imagine is similar. I use it on the wooden parts of my kit, spear shafts, sword pommels etc. 
 
Andrew

Re: \'sarcina\' documentation - Anonymous - 12-11-2004

heres mine, plus a copy of the actual bar hill bag on the right, and a linen bag from Qasr Ibrim: 
 
photobucket.com/albums/v6...an%20stuff 
 
Getting back to the main question, no the bag everyone copies is based on an interpretation of trajans column, not anything that came out of the ground! There are however bags that have been found at roman military sites such as Bar Hill, Qasr Ibrim, Windisch, Castleford etc. 
 
So why do we keep copying the same bloody bag?!?!? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=enniuspaulinus>Ennius Paulinus</A> at: 12/12/04 1:24 pm

password? - Carlton Bach - 12-11-2004

Ennius, the computer asks a password of me before letting me see your picture. Is it in a non-public spot? 
 
Volker

Re: password? - Anonymous - 12-12-2004

doh, i think i've sorted it, its my first time with photobucket

Re: password? - Lucius Aurelius Metellus - 12-12-2004

That's a very excellent looking kit, Ennius! Lucius Aurelius Metellus, draconarius, Secunda Brittanica

Re: Ennius kit - Anonymous - 12-12-2004

Ave, 
 
Wow! Ennius, your kit is beautiful. This is the kind of pictures people need to look at when building their own. The copy of the original bag is top opening with no flap? Are the pouches copied from something, or logical repsonses to a need? Really lovely. 
 
Valete, Florentius 
www.florentius.com

greek sarcina - Anonymous - 12-12-2004

Ave, 
I forgot about this till now, but we had a discussion about the loculus on Roman Army Yahoo list awhile back. This picture is off a 4th Cent. BC greek vase, from a magazine I get called Archeology Odyssey ( it's pretty good, lost a good pictures, not all Roman) img.photobucket.com/album...ulus72.jpg 
I scanned it from the July/August '04 issue. The picture used be online, but no longer, so I've "stolen it".. 
Anyway, this looks an awful lot like a sarcina/loculus to me... 
 
Also, slightly different, but related, go here and scroll to the bottom of the page, one of few depiction of the hobo stick- www.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/tombs.html courtesy of Dannos excellent Samnite related website. 
 
Valete, Florentius 
www.florentius.com -btw, I've been doing some more shoes, and the latest 5-6 oz leather I've gotten is much thicker that the previous 5-6 oz leather I used. It is definetly more difficult to make the calcei with the thicker leather, with this method, so... just a warning. If it seems too thick, go with a 4-5 oz instead. I'll be adding this update to the shoe page as well. Also, I've been informed that for metal shears, right hand ones work for left hand up side down, so you could get away with only one pair.