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+--- Thread: Later Roman arm guard? (/showthread.php?tid=24480)
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Later Roman arm guard? - Nathan Ross - 11-23-2014
In Raffaele D'Amato's recent Osprey book Roman Centurions 31BC-AD500, there's an illustration by Giuseppe Rava of a mid-third century centurion (plate F1), who appears to be wearing an unusual form of arm defence or guard. The notes on p.47 mention only 'military finds by Bulgarian archaeologists on the battlefield of Abrittus' - but I'm not sure to which aspect of the assembly this refers.
The illustrated arm-guard looks like this:
[attachment=11163]Ravacenturioncropped.jpg[/attachment]
The more familiar manica apparently continued in use into the later empire, as it's shown on the columns in Constantinople. Does anyone know more about this alternative version?
Later Roman arm guard? - Flavivs Aetivs - 11-23-2014
Quote:as it's shown on the columns in Constantinople.
One was found in a Limitanei Fortress in Bowe, England dating to the turn of the 5th Century.
As for the one from Abrittus, I have never seen such a thing. It looks like those 14th Century Armguards made by Deepeeka to be honest.
Later Roman arm guard? - Sextus Saturninus - 11-24-2014
That is a very unusual armguard - almost looks like a movie armguard and the sword looks very odd too. The sword looks like a Spatha but the grip, pommel, and guard are all odd.
Later Roman arm guard? - Ildar - 11-24-2014
Quote:In Raffaele D'Amato's recent Osprey book Roman Centurions 31BC-AD500, there's an illustration by Giuseppe Rava of a mid-third century centurion (plate F1), who appears to be wearing an unusual form of arm defence or guard. The notes on p.47 mention only 'military finds by Bulgarian archaeologists on the battlefield of Abrittus' - but I'm not sure to which aspect of the assembly this refers.
Nathan, you are right to doubt that nothing of the kind was found on the Abrittus' battlefield. See the email.
Later Roman arm guard? - Medicus matt - 11-24-2014
Quote:One was found in a Limitanei Fortress in Bowe, England dating to the turn of the 5th Century.
.
Where?
Later Roman arm guard? - Nathan Ross - 11-24-2014
Quote:nothing of the kind was found on the Abrittus' battlefield. See the email.
Thanks Ildar. So it appears that quite a few small items have been found at at the Abrittus site - hobnails, tentpegs, fragments of squamata and helmet bracing, spear-spikes and coins. However, no arm guards. So the provenence of this one in the illustration remains unclear...
Quote:the sword looks very odd too
I thought so too. The eagle's head spatha hilt is quite well known from the period, but I've never seen a double one like this...Has anyone? I also wondered whether the neck of the scabbard had been reinterpreted as part of the hilt assemblage. The whole things looks worryingly like this rather dubious item... :unsure:
Later Roman arm guard? - Nathan Ross - 11-24-2014
Quote:Where?
I would guess that Evan means the piece mentioned by Mike Bishop here (but dated to the 4th Century). The report is here, if anyone's able to look it up...
Meanwhile, that same thread has a link from Iagoba to this report on the Spanish finds, which includes (p174) this picture of a manica from the later 3rd century, found at Puerta Castillo-Santa Marina, Leon:
[attachment=11173]manicae.jpg[/attachment]
Perhaps this is what the illustration is intended to show?
Later Roman arm guard? - Medicus matt - 11-24-2014
Ah, that one, Bowes Moor. Thanks Nathan.
I thought he'd found evidence of a 5th century one in a previously unheard of location.
Too much excitement for a Monday morning.
Later Roman arm guard? - mcbishop - 11-24-2014
Quote:I would guess that Evan means the piece mentioned by Mike Bishop here (but dated to the 4th Century). The report is here, if anyone's able to look it up...Alternatively, just read this.
[attachment=11174]report.pdf[/attachment]
Mike Bishop
Later Roman arm guard? - M. Val. Naso - 11-24-2014
Oooo, Nathan, I've to go off-topic, what scales have been found in Abrittus?
Later Roman arm guard? - Flavivs Aetivs - 11-25-2014
Quote:Ah, that one, Bowes Moor. Thanks Nathan.
I thought he'd found evidence of a 5th century one in a previously unheard of location.
Too much excitement for a Monday morning.
That's it, Comitatus' mentioned the location on their site funny.
Thanks for the link Dr. Bishop.
Later Roman arm guard? - Martin Moser - 11-25-2014
Quote:I thought so too. The eagle's head spatha hilt is quite well known from the period, but I've never seen a double one like this...Has anyone?
The pommel reminds me a lot of a Katzbalger (e.g. http://www.swords.cz/pictures/swords/kac02.jpg, rightmost) and the guard is like a large version on what I have seen on some Bollock Daggers. Historical interpretation gone wild?
Later Roman arm guard? - Renatus - 11-25-2014
The whole thing looks bizarre. Is it possible to see the complete figure?
Later Roman arm guard? - Nathan Ross - 11-25-2014
Quote:Is it possible to see the complete figure?
Not sure. There are scans of the illustration on the internet already, but - copyright issue? Perhaps somebody could clarify?
Later Roman arm guard? - Renatus - 11-25-2014
Quote:There are scans of the illustration on the internet alreadyFound it. It looks utterly fanciful to me.