Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? (/showthread.php?tid=23603) Pages:
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Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-19-2014 Quote:ducenario de numero ...ianorum promotorum I've seen the argument that the term first appears in cavalry. Your reference to the early protectores domestici and to Valerius Iovinus who was "something (my latin isn't that great) of the Promoti" (presumably Equites Promoti) would support that. It's interesting as to when it first appears in infantry, which seems to have been around the time of Vegetius' writings (i.e. about 390-ish) as far as I am aware. But we still don't know exactly what this position was - the Perge tablets will hopefully shed some light. A little bit more back on topic, does Ammianus mention particular regiments in the Gallic army of the 350's? Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Nathan Ross - 02-19-2014 Quote: "something (my latin isn't that great) of the Promoti" (presumably Equites Promoti) Seems so - I notice another transcription of the text gives the title as ducenar[io? equitum] promo/tor(um)... Quote:does Ammianus mention particular regiments in the Gallic army of the 350's? He does. Mainly auxilia, with a couple of other infantry units: In connection with the murder of Silvanus (AD355): Cornuti and Bracchiati At the battle of Strasbourg (AD357): Cornuti, Bracchiati, Batavi, Regii, Legio Primani Sent to capture Alamanni prisoner (AD358): tribune of the Scutarii Lupicinus' expedition to Britain (AD360): Batavi and Heruli 'and two units of Moesians' (numerisque Moesiacorum duobus) Troops selected from the Gallic army to go east (AD360): Heruli, Batavi, Celtae, Petulantes We could also mention the Iovii and Victores, associated with the expedition to Britain in c.368. So it would appear that the Heruli auxilium had existed since at least the 350s... Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-19-2014 Indeed, it seems it did. Although early on I highly doubt it was actually comprised of Heruli, considering that in 350 they lived north of the Crimea which was outside the Roman sphere of influence. Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - ValentinianVictrix - 02-19-2014 Quote:Nathan Ross post=351198 Wrote:Milo Cross post=351196 Wrote:.if I estimate 10,000, will I make a fool of myself? I'm going to have to correct you here Evan. The Heruli (also called Eruli in some texts) were certainly around in at least the 350's, because Ammianus records them as such. They were normally brigaded with the Batavi and when they did so they shared the same standards. Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - ValentinianVictrix - 02-19-2014 Quote:Indeed, it seems it did. Although early on I highly doubt it was actually comprised of Heruli, considering that in 350 they lived north of the Crimea which was outside the Roman sphere of influence. Again, a correction here Evan. The Heruli were recruited before 355, and another Gothic tribe, the Taifali, were also recruited around the same time. You might find it useful to reread the first volumn of the Loeb translation of Ammianus when you get the time. Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-19-2014 Hmm... I actually have an online version of Ammianus, I was merely not aware the Heruli were recruited at the same time as the Taifali. This is helpful for my research on the federates of Aetius and Attila at Chalons, thank you VV. Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - inkstain - 02-20-2014 Ducenarius is also named as a senior rank in the agentes in rebus in Christopher Kelly's Ruling the Late Roman Empire and AMH Jones. Thanks Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Michael Kerr - 02-20-2014 Just on the Heruls, Ammianus mentions that when Constantinius felt threatened by the success of Julian in the west that he demanded the strongest troops of Julian to be sent east, the Batavians, Heruls & Celts. Julian protested that he had promised these troops that they would never be sent beyond the Alps as they had their homes across the Rhine. He would not have dared argue with the emperor if these Heruls or at least some groups of them were not living beyond the Danube or Crimea which was already beyond the Alps so some groups of Heruls must have moved west near the Batavi on or near the Rhine, probably by ships via Jutland??? :? Ammianus Book XX Chapter 4. mile: Regards Michael Kerr Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Nathan Ross - 02-20-2014 Quote:some groups of Heruls must have moved west near the Batavi on or near the Rhine, probably by ships via Jutland? I've seen two explanations for this. The first, 'migrational', theory is that the Heruli divided at some point during a trek south from their presumed homeland near the Baltic. One group went east and settled north of the Black Sea, the other, smaller, group went west and ended up somewhere between the Franks and the Alamanni. Interesting, but it seems rather a grandiose construction on a very slight foundation... The second theory is that there were two different peoples called Heruli - or that the Romans just gave the same name to two peoples with similar ones. Or, in fact, that the western Heruli were actually called Aeruli... But, as I mentioned before, we shouldn't assume that soldiers in auxilia units all came from the 'tribal' group that gave the unit its name. In fact, the names might have been chosen to reflect the fighting qualities (?) of a particular barbarian group, rather than the ethnic composition of the unit itself. Who did General Silvanus pay on August 7, 355? - Robert Vermaat - 02-20-2014 Great discussion so far guys! :-) |