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Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-15-2014
Yesterday, news "popped" that the local archeological authorities of Speyer have gained Access to a "larger barbarian hoard" from illegal diggings near
Germersheim. As in most of such cases the likely location of find had been "turned upside down" nearly completely by the diggers, who had been under Police surveillance because of earlier likewise cases. As far as the "Impromptu" News are having it, we are talking about another hoard from the 3rd century similar to the one found at Neupotz.
If we put into perspective that the late-roman stronghold of "Vico Iulio" is suspected at around Germersheim (that is: "Garrisoned from ca. 300 up to today!")
According to the ND occ. 1-34 ( >>XLI
ux Mogontiacorum) there were the Milites Anderitianorum -- probably the latest garrison.Needless to say that the fact that no traces of this premises have been found yet, bring in some more complcations,
The finds will get public exposition as soon as they are restored. In the meanwhile more informations about the find will (hopefully) be accessible at the press-conference
of the GDKE (GeneralDirektion Kulturelles Erbe -- the highest archeological authority of Rhineland-Pfalz) at Mainz on Tuesday 18th February -- for early birds -- at 9:30p.m.
I could not get further informations about the latter, though.
Greez
Simplex
Edit:
http://www.welt.de/geschichte/article124861027/Spaetantiker-Barbarenschatz-in-der-Pfalz-entdeckt.html
...speaks of originating from 5th century,
another source, which I failed to Bookmark draws a closer line towards the Neupotz hoard, which is from late 3rd century
>>>more about Neupotz and Hagenbach:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/18-references-a-reviews/150288-geraubt-und-im-rhein-versunken-der-barbarenschatz.html
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Caballo - 02-15-2014
Could the Milites Anderitianorum have originated from Anderita ( modern Pevensey, UK ).? Or is there another possibility?
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-15-2014
To judge from what is available online from Ralf Scharf's book on the Dux Mogontiacorum and the Notitia Dignitatum this may well be the case and he's referring here to
Dietrich Hoffmann's book on the Notitia Dignitatum from 1971 (IIRC). Since he does not object here I'd say "the ayes have it".
(Well, Yann Le Bohec e.g. has a more critical view on Hoffmann's work in general, but since I have NOT read the main works of both Hoffmann and Le Bohec I'll leave it at "that" for now.)
I think a couple of member of this great forum may have a view more detailed than I do have, so I hope they can/will contribute a bit more here.
Greez
Simplex
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Eleatic Guest - 02-17-2014
Holy Jesus. I lived in Germersheim for several years! Why didn't I find the hoard! Too bad the find context was apparently destroyed.
I have also been to the Neupotz exposition in Speyer in 2006, quite cool.
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-18-2014
So ... the authorities have been a bit more specific about the finds.
1)It has been presented by new chief-archeologist Dr. Axel von Berg
2)No it has not been fonud at Germersheim : "near Germersheim" in that case meant "Rülzheim"
3)The finds date more into 5th century.
Pics here :
http://www.morgenweb.de/nachrichten/kultur/kultur-allgemein/archaologen-prasentieren-spektakularen-schatzfund-1.1407094
I'd guess that more News will follow soon.
Greez
Simplex
Some more links :
http://www.focus.de/regional/mainz/archaeologie-experten-raubgraeber-entdeckt-bundesweit-einmaligen-barbarenschatz_id_3623387.html
http://www.welt.de/geschichte/article124967023/Barbarenschatz-neben-alter-Roemerstrasse-entdeckt.html
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/archaeologie-rheinland-pfalz-raubgraeber-entdeckt-barbarenschatz-a-954236.html
Movin' pics:
http://www.allgemeine-zeitung.de/lokales/rheinhessen/archaeologen-praesentieren-einzelstuecke-in-mainz-barbarenschatz-in-der-pfalz-von-raubgraebern-entdeckt_13887089.htm
http://www.echo-online.de/nachrichten/kunstundkultur/Spektakulaerer-Schatz-aus-der-Zeit-der-Voelkerwanderung-gefunden;art1161,4752079
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-18-2014
5th Century you say?
Now you have my attention.
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-18-2014
Yes.
...... and as always in such cases the bad "N-word" has also surfaced !* :whistle:
Greez
Siggi
* In such cases , Holding a press-conference is NOT very funny,
You know, some journalists are VERY "one-track-minded" :wink:
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Nathan Ross - 02-18-2014
Quote:the bad "N-word"
Nibelungenschatz? :twisted:
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-18-2014
:!: ;-)
Greez
Siggi
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-19-2014
I don't get it. Some sort of other horde? Relation to the Niebelungenlied?
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Caballo - 02-19-2014
Very interesting- though I'm struggling with the German. Are they saying that these are from a ceremonial wand? "... goldene Schmuckstücke eines zeremoniellen Gewands,"
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://www.morgenweb.de/polopoly_fs/1.1407229.1392733762!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/galerie_362q/image.jpg)
Looks to me like a huge silver decorated hoard- though not sure what the statuettes are? (The archaeology voice in my head is saying "Clearly, ritual..."
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://www.morgenweb.de/polopoly_fs/1.1407095.1392732922!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/text_550/image.jpg)
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://www.morgenweb.de/polopoly_fs/1.1407227.1392733754!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/galerie_362h/image.jpg)
Any idea what these are?
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://www.morgenweb.de/polopoly_fs/1.1407226.1392733750!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/galerie_362q/image.jpg)
But these look like a serious silver plate assembly.
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://www.morgenweb.de/polopoly_fs/1.1407228.1392733759!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/galerie_362q/image.jpg)
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Gunthamund Hasding - 02-19-2014
Thanks again very interesting, I am always asking myself how much gets lost for us because of the all "Indiana Jones" that are out there. I think this case deserves to be followed, prosecuted and punished, or we might need in germany a law like in UK.
to caballo: Gewand will be an garment, so a nice piece of cloth if you ask me from the look of it was very ornated, so in this case prbably a reach one using it in "ceremonial" purposes
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-19-2014
@ Mag.Mil. Flav.Aet. (Hope I got the correct abbreviations :wink: )/Evan
Of course it is "Da Nibelungen-Schatz".
The whole Rhineland is obsessed by the fact, that there might be a couple of tons of ancient wealth laying amassed somewhere , still.
Give a german Journalist two terms 1) "Hoard" 2) "5th century AD" and he likely will spit out either the "N-Word" or will be plaguing his opponent with questions related to that. :whistle:
(As was the case with that Berlin newspaper which I chose not to link in post #351184.)
So I had bad creams last night --- of millions of inhabitants of the area around Rülzheim ( plus a couple of millions of visitors) armed with shovels, digging "over/under" the whole of that area -- buildings, streets etc etc included .........
hock: Gunthamund , if I had the choice to characterize that Individuum that "found" the treasure by either "Indian Jones" or "Criminal" -- I'd sure chose the latter Expression.
Ah ... more Entertainment .....
More moving Pictures:
http://www.swr.de/landesschau-aktuell/rp/raubgraeber-findet-schatz-fundstuecke-erstmals-oeffentlich-gezeigt/-/id=1682/did=12894886/nid=1682/46xkwq/
I'll try and visit that Exhibition with that hoard as soon as it will be possible. (After restoration of the whole of finds, that is, of course.)
Greez
Simplex
....and of course I'll be reporting back ... as soon as there is more worth metioning or more pics.
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Flavivs Aetivs - 02-19-2014
Ah, so there is a general belief of a treasure hoard in somewhat related to the Niebelungenlied? Fascinating. I myself think that the majority of finds belonged to Alemann/Burgundian/Frankish soldiers serving in the Rhine Garrisons under Aetius, but that's a different story.
Also, most people shorten it to "MMFA"
Thanks Simplex!
Large \"barbarian hoard\" found near Germersheim(D)? - Simplex - 02-19-2014
The quest for the "Nibelungenhort" has, for large parts taken the shape of a "farce".
IMHO the "Nibelungenhort" has already been found like at Neupotz, Hagenbach and, well, literally dozens of other finding-spots in that certain area around Speyer.
Not to mention the finds that have gone in secrecy. And most likely there will be more finds of that stuff (albeit not in that size) in future times .....I'm quite certain about that.
So the core of the story of the Nobelungenhoard may be, the Impression that the Rhine had made onto People as a "gold-rich" stream , because of:
1)Repeated finds of sizeable and precious Roman remains from the waters (and "ex-waters") of the Rhine through the times that went since then.
2)The fact that the Rhine's stream IS carrying traces of fine Gold in ist Waters. There were times when prospecting for gold in the Rhine WAS worthwhile.
or
3)Both.
Greez
Simplex
I bet --- right now as we are discussing this matter, somewhere some People are gathering, making plans how to raise the Nibelungenhort at some secret place.