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The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - mcbishop - 12-17-2013
Remember The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army? You know, the thing nobody was going to be able to afford. Well, you're going to have to wait even longer not to be able to afford to buy it. Publication has now been put back until 2015. Saw it first on Amazon and it is now confirmed on Wiley's own dedicated web page. I bet you're all heartbroken ;-)
Mike Bishop
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Flavivs Aetivs - 12-17-2013
Evan is confused.
It hurt itself in its confusion.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Robert Vermaat - 12-17-2013
Quote:I bet you're all heartbroken ;-)It means my contribution will be even more out of date when it's finally published in 2025.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Graham Sumner - 12-17-2013
I know how you feel Robert.
As there was a big push with the editing of my own contribution well over a year ago, I thought it must have been almost ready by now. When I saw Mike's post I thought he was announcing it was published!
However I know how these things can be delayed, so coffee break over and back to work!
Graham.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - John W Davison - 12-17-2013
Well, gentlemen, I shall still purchase it, in spite of the passage of time since your contributions were scripted. Does this mean they need to start work on the second edition.
This does seem to be symptomatic of a wider malaise in academic publishing. Wiley-Blackwell also publish, for example, the excellent (apart from the delays) "Blackwell History of the Ancient World", but for something which is basically supposed to be a textbook, is it not absurd that intervals between volumes are sometime longer than undergraduate degrees? And why are they on edition 2 of the Classical and Archaic Greece volumes (and the Byzantine volume) while we are still awaiting the initial appearance of the volumes on the Roman Republic and the earlier Roman Empire?
No wonder Osprey and Pen & Sword do well - the customer does not die of old age waiting for the product to appear!
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - antiochus - 12-18-2013
I read the sample section on “Origins of the Roman Army by Giambattista Cairo” and from what I read all Cairo is doing is discussing are the theories of Fraccaro and then Sumner’s ridiculous paper “The legion and the centuriate organization JRS 60 : 67 – 78.”
Is this what you get for your money, one person discussing another person’s work? This explains why I know so many people who refuse to buy books on the Roman legion…they're sick of the same claptrap.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - mcbishop - 12-18-2013
Quote:I read the sample section on “Origins of the Roman Army by Giambattista Cairo” and from what I read all Cairo is doing is discussing are the theories of Fraccaro and then Sumner’s ridiculous paper “The legion and the centuriate organization JRS 60 : 67 – 78.”I feel it important to point out, for those who may not realise, that that paper was written by G.V. Sumner, not our Graham Sumner (who would only have been 12 at the time; prodigy he may be, but even he is not that precocious!).
Quote:Is this what you get for your money, one person discussing another person’s work? This explains why I know so many people who refuse to buy books on the Roman legion…they're sick of the same claptrap.What, even the Dando-Collins book? Gosh, I'm now wondering if I should take it off my Christmas list... ;-)
Mike Bishop
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Sean Manning - 12-18-2013
Quote:This does seem to be symptomatic of a wider malaise in academic publishing. Wiley-Blackwell also publish, for example, the excellent (apart from the delays) "Blackwell History of the Ancient World", but for something which is basically supposed to be a textbook, is it not absurd that intervals between volumes are sometime longer than undergraduate degrees? And why are they on edition 2 of the Classical and Archaic Greece volumes (and the Byzantine volume) while we are still awaiting the initial appearance of the volumes on the Roman Republic and the earlier Roman Empire?I think that the difficulty has always been that peer-review and editing are volunteer work, and sometimes people take on more than they can handle. All it takes is one late editor, or one serious disagreement about changes, to block a whole volume.
Off to read "The Legion and the Centuriate Organization."
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - mcbishop - 12-18-2013
Quote:I think that the difficulty has always been that peer-review and editing are volunteer work, and sometimes people take on more than they can handle. All it takes is one late editor, or one serious disagreement about changes, to block a whole volume.My difficulty lies in seeing how academic publishers think this is in any way ethical.
Mike Bishop
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Renatus - 12-18-2013
Quote:I read the sample section on “Origins of the Roman Army by Giambattista Cairo” and from what I read all Cairo is doing is discussing are the theories of Fraccaro and then Sumner’s ridiculous paper “The legion and the centuriate organization JRS 60 : 67 – 78.”What else do you expect from a publication like this? There simply isn't the space for more than a statement of mainstream opinion with, perhaps, a nod towards some alternative theories. It is impossible to engage in an in-depth study of individual subjects and, with respect to the distinguished contributors, the whole approach is almost bound to be somewhat superficial. What, then, is the point of it? I suppose to provide a general overview of the thinking current at the time of publication or, in this case apparently, some years before.
Is this what you get for your money, one person discussing another person’s work? This explains why I know so many people who refuse to buy books on the Roman legion…they're sick of the same claptrap.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Graham Sumner - 12-18-2013
Mike Bishop wrote:
I feel it important to point out, for those who may not realise, that that paper was written by G.V. Sumner, not our Graham Sumner (who would only have been 12 at the time; prodigy he may be, but even he is not that precocious!).
Thanks Mike. In fact I have been listed elsewhere in someone's bibliography as writing that work!
I do remember drawing Roman soldiers in school at 8 and saying to the teacher it was because "I knew what they looked like"! :oops: :wink:
Graham.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - antiochus - 12-19-2013
Renatus wrote:
What else do you expect from a publication like this? There simply isn't the space for more than a statement of mainstream opinion with, perhaps, a nod towards some alternative theories.
Of all the theories to choose from for this period, this editor picks Sumner, which is nothing more than Sumner trying to make Polybius’ legion of 4200 men fit the primary sources. However, in doing so Sumner disregards 90% of the primary sources for his given period. Why this editor could not have chosen “Cornell, T.J., The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 B.C.), London: Routledge, 1995”is way beyond me. Cornell is intelligent, Sumner lacks common sense.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - antiochus - 12-19-2013
M Bishop wrote:
What, even the Dando-Collins book? Gosh, I'm now wondering if I should take it off my Christmas list...
Hmm, it was in reference to "people I knew" not buying books on the Roman army. As I do not know you this should not effect your decision. :lol:
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Kegluneq - 12-19-2013
Quote:Sean Manning post=348417 Wrote:I think that the difficulty has always been that peer-review and editing are volunteer work, and sometimes people take on more than they can handle. All it takes is one late editor, or one serious disagreement about changes, to block a whole volume.My difficulty lies in seeing how academic publishers think this is in any way ethical.
Having spent the past three years editing a volume of conference proceedings I'm inclined to agree, but at the same time our book (Jan 2014, preorder now) is hardly high-profile! Unfortunately, I think any kind of required monetary compensation would (greatly?) reduce the amount of academic work published, especially by first-time editors (as we are). It would also make finding proof-readers a lot harder, if they could prioritise work by higher-paying publishers.
The Encyclopedia of the Roman Army - Sean Manning - 12-19-2013
Quote:It certainly assumes a world where all the learned are paid to, among other things, edit and peer-review new scholarship. If that world ever existed, it certainly has been gone for fifty years or more. (Proposals that authors should pay the few thousand dollars that it costs to edit, format, and distribute a journal article, because obviously everyone who publishes scholarly articles has an employer who will refund their publishing costs, face the same problem).Sean Manning post=348417 Wrote:I think that the difficulty has always been that peer-review and editing are volunteer work, and sometimes people take on more than they can handle. All it takes is one late editor, or one serious disagreement about changes, to block a whole volume.My difficulty lies in seeing how academic publishers think this is in any way ethical.
Mike Bishop
Edit: Robert's point that many academic publishers don't have enough money to pay anyone but the printer and the book designer also matches my experience.