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Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Printable Version

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Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Eleatic Guest - 12-11-2013

There aren't many around in reenactment groups, are they? Even in museums they seem rare. I am only aware of the exemplar in the Saalburg Museum.

So, what is the price of a faithful, working reconstruction and don't you need - in Europe - a weapons license for a crossbow anyway?


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Flavivs Aetivs - 12-11-2013

I have never seen a Gastraphetes reconstructed, honestly. The closes I've seen is Comitatus and their Arcuballista, of which plan to make one.

Honestly if you can make a wood self bow you can build one yourself, just have to have someone make the metal parts.


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - emilio - 12-12-2013

Take a look at the middle of this page:
http://www.arbalestrie.com/pages/arbalete.php

ciao,
emilio


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Eleatic Guest - 12-12-2013

Quote:Take a look at the middle of this page:
http://www.arbalestrie.com/pages/arbalete.php

Interesting. It is the longest crossbow by ca. 50%, but one of the lighter ones. The prod is not composite, but wood. They are all seriously underpowered, aren't they? Must be in accordance with the law.


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - emilio - 12-12-2013

This gastraphetes is really underpowered. I bought it last year and I pulled at very short distances.

I've shown this gastraphetes in an event of historical reenactment dedicated to the siege of Syracuse, 212 BC.

Polybius (VIII, 5) tells of crossbows ("skorpidia" - "small scorpions") invented by Archimedes against the Romans, perhaps an evolution of gastraphetes already used by the Syracusans in the siege of Mothya (397 BC).

ciao,
emilio


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Flavivs Aetivs - 12-12-2013

Interesting - could that have been the advent of the Roman Scorpion?

As for the Gastraphetes, it wasn't a very powerful crossbow historically. Most European crossbows are looking at a 200 pound draw.

The Roman Arcuballista (3rd centuryAD - 6th century AD) and the Greek Gastraphetes (5th or 4th century BC - 2nd century BC) didn't have more than a 90 pound draw. Comitatus' Arcuballista has about 40 pound draw, according to John Conyard.


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - D B Campbell - 12-12-2013

Quote:Polybius (VIII, 5) tells of crossbows ("skorpidia" - "small scorpions") invented by Archimedes against the Romans, perhaps an evolution of gastraphetes already used by the Syracusans in the siege of Mothya (397 BC).
I know that Drachmann suggested this back in the 1970s, but in reality, it was probably common to draw an analogy between a scorpion and any smallish arrow-shooter. Philon calls Dionysius' polybolos a "skorpidion" (73 Thévenot = 146-7 Marsden), and that machine definitely has nothing in common with the gastraphetes!


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Flavivs Aetivs - 12-12-2013

The Polybolos is awesome. Reminds me of the first Gatling Guns.


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - D B Campbell - 12-12-2013

Quote:As for the Gastraphetes, it wasn't a very powerful crossbow historically. ... the Greek Gastraphetes (5th or 4th century BC - 2nd century BC) didn't have more than a 90 pound draw.
With respect, we have no idea how heavy the gastraphetes' draw weight was, other than the fact that it took the entire weight of a man to span its powerful composite bow. (Admittedly I'm not an ancient Greek, but I weigh rather more than 90lbs!)


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Flavivs Aetivs - 12-12-2013

Hmm, you could be right, but as far as I'm aware the Roman Arcuballista didn't get more powerful than a 90 lbs draw.

In fact 90lbs is about the max that is needed. You put 90lbs of force behind a bolt and that could do some serious damage.


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Eleatic Guest - 12-12-2013

Now this may sound like a curious inquiry but isn't the draw weight limited by the body weight? The gastraphetes was cocked by resting the stomach in a concavity at the rear of the stock and pressing down with all strength. Can you exert this way more strength than your body weighs?


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - Giannis K. Hoplite - 12-12-2013

Yes but, a normal person's weight is usually much more than the poundage of even the strongest bows. 70 kilos equal to more than 154 lb
Khaire
Giannis


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - emilio - 12-13-2013

Quote: Philon calls Dionysius' polybolos a "skorpidion" (73 Thévenot = 146-7 Marsden), and that machine definitely has nothing in common with the gastraphetes!

Dear Duncan, IMO it is very difficult to shoot with a "polybolos" through a slit size of a cubit... Wink

LIVIUS, 24, 34, 9 - "Postremo, ut sui uolnere intacti tela in hostem ingererent, murum ab imo ad summum crebris cubitalibus fere cauis aperuit, per quae caua pars sagittis, pars scorpionibus modicis ex occulto petebant hostem."
"Lastly, in order that his own men might heap their weapons upon the enemy, without receiving any wounds themselves, he (Archimedes) perforated the wall from the top to the bottom with a great number of loop-holes, about a cubit in diameter, through which some with arrows, others with scorpions of moderate size, assailed the enemy without being seen."

Roman Cubitus : 1.456 ft (English equivalent) - 44,4 cm (Metric equivalent)

ciao,
Emilio


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - hoplite14gr - 12-18-2013

We followed Mr Campbell work in his Osprey book and here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/koryvantes/7684752654/in/set-72157630839243256

Kind regards


Reconstructed Gastraphetes - D B Campbell - 12-18-2013

Quote:IMO it is very difficult to shoot with a "polybolos" through a slit size of a cubit... Wink
You may not have realized that I was not suggesting that all scorpions are polyboloi; only that any smallish arrow-shooter could probably have been given this name.