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+--- Thread: Bone hilt details (/showthread.php?tid=2334)
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Bone hilt details - Anonymous - 07-27-2004
Ave!<br>
<br>
On page 306 of Peter Connolly's 'Greece & Rome at war' you can see an illustration of an aquilifer carrying a gladius with a hilt made completely out of bone. With most originals I have seen, the pommel is made out of several pieces due to the shape of the original bone.<br>
<br>
Here we can see a gold colored line (brass?) in the middle of the pommel. My guess is that the pommel in this case is made out of at least two pieces with a brass plate between them.<br>
Is this based on any evidence, is there somewhere an original made in the same fashion?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Jurgen/Quintilianus <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Anonymous - 07-27-2004
When it says "completely out of bone " I suspect that it means no wood involved.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - venicone - 07-27-2004
is this the kind of thing youre looking for?<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.exploratio.org/image_database/dagger_sword1/IMGP3341.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
theres a couple more imges at www.exploratio.org/image_database/exploratio.htm <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Anonymous - 07-27-2004
That's right,<br>
<br>
On the photo you see the different parts of the pommel.<br>
Can this also be done with pieces of brass between the different layers of bone? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=quintilianus>quintilianus</A> at: 7/27/04 2:39 pm<br></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Gregg - 07-27-2004
Judging by the photos of that piece on the Exploratio site, I was going to say it was probably made from numerous pieces of ivory, but it’s really hard to tell. The grip is obviously one piece, which would be standard, but the pommel and the guard look like they are made of multiple pieces. If it was made entirely of bone, it would make sense that it would be constructed of multiple pieces, especially in the case of the guard, as I don’t believe there would have been any bone large and solid enough to make a guard like that from one piece.<br>
<br>
A lot of time and effort must have gone into carving and polishing it so all the pieces fit together. The piece at the top of the pommel looks like it was carved to fit over the pommel nut, and I’m really curious to see how they would have fit the whole thing onto the sword. Perhaps the tang was peened inside the middle part of the pommel, and the top cap was then fit over it.<br>
<br>
Whether it’s bone or ivory, it really is quite beautiful.<br>
<br>
Gregg<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - aitor iriarte - 07-28-2004
Yes, a nice hilt indeed !<br>
I think that it is bone, if you look at the base of the grip, you'll see a hole, it is a natural one where an artery or vein inserted to the bone. I found the same thing when I was making the grip for my eagle-head hilt and I just made it fit between two of the eagle neck's scale-like feathers !<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Anonymous - 07-28-2004
The hilt is just down the road from me and I went to see it la few months ago.<br>
<br>
The grip is bone but the hilt and pommel are ivory.<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Gashford - 07-28-2004
Hello all<br>
<br>
Is the handle made from one piece or two. There appears to be a seem running from top to bottom along its length ... or is that a crack prior to its rediscovery?<br>
<br>
All the best <p>Graham Ashford
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Re: Bone hilt details - Anonymous - 07-28-2004
Graham,<br>
<br>
I think its one piece. I have some other angle photos somewhere. I will look and see.<br>
<br>
Its in Dorchester if you are close you can have a butchers ?<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilt details - Gashford - 07-28-2004
Conal, are you UK based as well? <p>Graham Ashford
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Re: Bone hilt details - venicone - 07-28-2004
if i recall correctly its one piece Graham <p></p><i></i>
Bone hilts - Anonymous - 07-28-2004
Salve<br>
<br>
There is a single piece hilt in the British museum, though this one is ivory. The pommel is a flattened diamond shape, though one of the sides has been broken off in the past. As for the bone hilt with a brass collar, I think it may be the gladius from Canaervon, now on display in the Bangor University museum. The brass collar was to cover up a mistake by the maker!<br>
<br>
Celer. <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilts - Anonymous - 07-28-2004
Graham,<br>
<br>
I can be found in Southampton & Poole and work in Salisbury.<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilts - Gregg - 07-28-2004
Graham - I believe the line running down the length of the bone grip in the photo above is a crack. It may be a stress crack from when the tang was peened down, or it may have just developed over time. The bone grip on my Deepeeka gladius has a similar crack, though it’s only about an inch long. One of the photos on the Exploratio site shows a crack on the ivory guard, though ivory is more delicate and tends to split and crack with age, especially if exposed to moisture.<br>
<br>
The tiny opening at the bottom of the grip near the guard is interesting, though hard to interpret. I know the type of hole you are referring to Aitor, I’ve seen it on some cow bones. But cattle metatarsus bones, which the Romans seem to have used almost exclusively when carving ribbed bone grips, don’t have that kind of hole. Many other surviving bone grips seem to have similar holes or missing areas, usually larger, but I’ve mostly only seen drawings so I really can’t do more than guess the cause, whether it’s damage or imperfection. Maybe the groove was originally carved too deeply and hit the hollow center of the bone, or maybe it was a thin part of the bone that just wore down from use over time.<br>
<br>
BTW Aitor, I saw the picture of your eagle head gladius handle. Did you carve it yourself? If it was carved from bone, what kind of bone did you use? Was it one piece?<br>
<br>
Gregg <p></p><i></i>
Re: Bone hilts - Gashford - 07-28-2004
an aside to Conal.<br>
<br>
I work in Havant, perhaps we can have a chat one day ... <p>Graham Ashford
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