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Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-09-2013
Ave, Y'all,
Vitruvius here with a ? that even Googling couldn't come up with an answer about.: On the Great Trajanic Frieze, Trajan's helm, being held by a guardsman is supossed to be shown with the "Rose of Life" aka The "Rose Crown of Ecate" as a crest. I am not sure if I am looking in all the wrong places, or what? If anyone would aim in tghe correct direction, I would be VERY appreciative of it.
Thanks in advance,
Salvete,
Vitruvius......aka Larry Mager
Rose Crown of Ecates - Antonius Insulae - 08-10-2013
You probably mean these helmets, which are seen in my pictures here. The first is from the Arch of Constantinus, which reused many friezes from older ones erected by Trajanus, Hadrianus and Marcus Aurelius.
You can see two helmets on the middle background, with that odd crest of rose in the middle and feathers on the sides.
The second picture by Angus McBride shows two guard cavalrymen, either Equites Praetoriani or Equites Singulares Augusti (they are on a campaign of Trajanus in Dacia, since they've collected Dacians' heads and a falx/rhomphaia sword). They have the same helmet (attic-type, which is in itself dubious). That crest seems to be very rare, and only pictorial evidence supports it, and I personally don't know anything else about it, I've never seen it anywhere else.
It could be real, or then just an artistic device, which has no proof in reality.
I haven't heard about "Rose of Life" or "Rose Crown of Ecate" (you probably mean Hecate/Hekate, a Greek goddess of whichcraft etc.). Although there is a symbol for Hecate, a round sun disk between two crescent moons pointing outwards, at least it sometimes is associated with Hecate nowadays, I don't know if it was used in ancient times. And it's also more often called a symbol of triple-goddess in neopaganism. It resembles the rose and two feathers a bit, but this is just guessing.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-10-2013
Avete, Sakari, Mi Frater.
That is exactly what I was looking for and it is "Ecates", not Hecate.....I know about Hecate because I have several Neo-European Pagans for friends and yes, the crown for her is waxing, Full, and Waining moons. I had an idea that the Rose looked like Your second photo, but I can't remember which Osprey that it came out of. If you would send me the name of the book it is in, I would be appreciate it.
Thank You so VERY much for Your help. Other than money, if I can do anything to help YOU, let me know, Please!!!!!
Your Friend, Larry
Rose Crown of Ecates - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-10-2013
An informative post, Antonius. Thank you.
Although I find the existence of such a crest unlikely, it would be interesting to see a reconstruction of it.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-10-2013
Ave, Magister,
I asked about the Crest because I saw a hypothetical comment In D'Amato's Book, that Trajan had a Guard holding His helm on the Great Trajanic Frieze. I have ordered a cheap "Attic" helm to work on and I want to build such a crestto go on it. Give me a month or two to get the helm and then another fortnight to get the crest made. My main question to D"Amato is: Why would Trajan's crest match his Praetorians' crest?
Any comments, anyone??????
Salvete,
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager
Rose Crown of Ecates - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-10-2013
Well, many Late Roman Helmets used Gold or Silver Guilding to indicate payscale, along with studding with Gems or fancy metalwork. It could be the same here - Trajan had a crest that was similar, but distinguished by being fancier, than his Praetorians. Although that is a big academic leap.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-10-2013
I agree, Mi Magister, a really BIG Academic Leap!!!!!!!!
I always look forward to Your opinions, My Friend!!!!! Thanks, My Friend
My Best,
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager
Rose Crown of Ecates - Antonius Insulae - 08-21-2013
Ave Vitruvius!
Thanks and you're welcome! I'm always happy to help a fellow Roman enthusiast! I'm afraid I don't know from which Osprey publication this particular Angus McBride illustration is taken from, since I have only found it on internet and not scanned from a book.
Maybe you can do me a favor someday in the future when I need it, help in some question if I came across one which I can't solve myself. Thanks in advance, mi frater! Perhaps you could give me a "thank you" note, if you haven't already (probably you have, but I just don't know it).
And can you tell me something more about the word Ecate, then, if it's not meant to be Hekate?
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-23-2013
Ave,
Ecate appears to mean "Life" , I say this because the other name for it is the "Rose of Life" I've given this some thought and I have come up with this idea: The Rose of Ecate is based on "The Rose of Sharon" which. depending on ones point of view., either a pernicious vine or a beautiful vining flower. The front of the Flower matches very close the front and back of the "Rose of Ecate". I hope this helps
Salvete,
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager
Rose Crown of Ecates - Robert Vermaat - 08-26-2013
Quote:Well, many Late Roman Helmets used Gold or Silver Guilding to indicate payscale, along with studding with Gems or fancy metalwork.Evan, where on earth did you get this from? Just about all Late Roman helmets were either produced with each part decked in a very thin layer of silver or guilded silver. And although we hear of Constantine's helemt being decked with jewels, the only one we have found (the Budapest and Berkasovo I helmet) had fake jewels on them (glass paste). Also, I have never found any link between payscales and the level of helmet decorations!
Rose Crown of Ecates - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-26-2013
Well I didn't know that.
I've heard Silver and Gold Guilding was used as a form of pay because the currency was unreliable. (But I can't remember the source, I'll try and find it though).
Also, I thought there were a few found without guilding.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-26-2013
Ave, While I'm not trying to play Moderator here, I think we are on the verge of getting off topic. I have read different places that guilding was occasionally used as a simpler, safer way of transporting one's wealth, but I doubt anyone but the Emperor would have had thier entire helm guilded. I also wonder if Trajan's combat helmet wasn't un guilded so as not to attract attention from the Dacians (heh-heh)
Any comments, Mi Amicos,
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager
Rose Crown of Ecates - Robert Vermaat - 08-27-2013
Quote: I doubt anyone but the Emperor would have had thier entire helm guilded.Yet this is the case. Every part (rivets included) of LR helmets (but one) were wrapped in a very thin sheet of (gilded) silver. The semi-free craftsmen who did this were called barbaricarii, who worked in the state-controlled production centres (fabricae). The amount of precious metal is sometimes inscribed in a helmet, and the barbaricarius who added too little or too much gold could face the death penalty.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Flavivs Aetivs - 08-27-2013
What's the source for that? I'm not criticizing, I just want to know.
Rose Crown of Ecates - Vitruvius - 08-27-2013
Ave, Robert e Evan,
Now that You mention it, I too, remember , though vaguely ( so what else is new?) reading som ething similar, though it was, as mentioned LR. I haven't found anything about pre-LR about it.
I will say this ( my tongue shoved 6 " through my cheek....LOL), Given the expense of having the Helms Silvered and/ or guilded in the LR way, it is no wonder most re-enactors' helms are mainly steel or Brass!!!!!!! Just joking!!!!
BTW, Robert, Thanks again for that info aboout LR......I learned something new from it. It is going in my Helmet notebook....especially once You have time to find Your sources for that info.
Salvete Mi Amicos
Larry (Vitruvius) Mager