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+--- Thread: Too slow! Get moving! (/showthread.php?tid=22636)
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Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-09-2013
This Ancient Combat Sports forum is slower than I'd like. ;-) So I'll help spice it up a bit.
A few of us in Kentucky (US) have been getting together weekly for gladiator practices. We started a couple of months ago. Two weeks ago, seven of us came, the largest single group yet. We're practicing with Cold Steel gladius trainers, Cold Steel bucklers, and have begun making wooden equipment (i.e. shields, spear/trident trainers, gladii trainers, etc.). One of our members, a seamstress, is making padded manicae and ocreae for us. And we've started ordering basic equipment like greaves and helmets.
We are learning what we can from various printed sources, as well as videos from groups like ACTA and others (there's a lot on YouTube, some good and some bad). We're aiming for some measure of historical accuracy, but we're working with what we have at the moment. We have been working on basic sword work and foot work, and we have been trying to develop sword forms for practice, both one and two-person forms.
Perfect it may not be, but it is fun! I'll try to post pics when I get some good ones.
Too slow! Get moving! - jvrjenivs - 05-09-2013
Quote:This Ancient Combat Sports forum is slower than I'd like. ;-) So I'll help spice it up a bit.
If you've any questions just post them, that's the easiest way to get a discussion started. There is an amount of knowledge on here, but without a question it will not be posted
As for your group I wish you all luck and joy in your project. Have started doing gladiator stuff about 5 years ago and it made good fun.
As for your comments on getting gear, I only would suggest you to NOT buy gear too fast. Better save some more money and get some better equipment and stay away from the Deepeeka gladiator helmet range. These helmets do not take any combat force. In fact I found their galerus the only piece of some use.
Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-09-2013
Gratias tibi ago for your reply! My post was more of announcement, hoping that by saying that we were doing this, more people may become interested or tell us about their work.
I am curious, though, about the Deepeeka stuff. Based on what I've read so far, it sounds like gladiator equipment was 16 or 18 gauge bronze, brass, or iron. Deepeeka's stuff is in that range (much of it 18 gauge). Is it not the thickness of the material but some other thing (e.g. style, accuracy, bad welding, etc.) which is the problem? I'd love to get equipment from some of the amazing places in Europe (e.g. AER, Marek, etc.), but the cost is prohibitive for simple practice. I've even considered using American football helmets for now.
Too slow! Get moving! - jvrjenivs - 05-09-2013
Well, material thickness isn't everything. I well hammered plate of proper brass is much more stable as a soft 'brass' sheet of the same guache. I have handled some Deepeeka helmets of which I question if it is real brass at all.
Some of their helmets are within a accuracy range I would allow in my display, but others aren't. With all the materials used and construction could be better. I wouldn't fight with any of them, anyway.
Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-10-2013
Accuracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. We are missing records and accurate depictions of equipment, so some measures of "inauthenticity" is OK. If I were reenacting a legionary, I'd agree, but gladiators? There's more room to move.
So, why wouldn't you fight in them? Are they way too thin and will give no protection at all? Will they fall apart? Etc. I've heard people say "I won't use them", but I guess I've not heard good, solid reasons yet.
And gratias. We're all learning.
Too slow! Get moving! - martin1 - 05-10-2013
I have to say, there is a definite variation in Deepeeka quality. I have been fighting in a Deepeeka thraex and one of the myrmillo helmets for ten years with no real problems, but I have also seen Deepeeks helmets come apart due to weak soldering or poor fitting components. I have also fought is an Antoni Felton thraex helmet: secure and comfortable, but too expensive to risk real damage ($1500.00) over a number of fights, so after a couple of dents in the cheek pieces, I relegated to an awesome display item at my display table. The AER helmets are great for the price, but the Berlin subtype myrmillo helmet cannot be put on unaided and it needs to be dismantled to get it on at all, a time consuming and aggravating process. the AER ocrea and greaves are great!
Too slow! Get moving! - M. Demetrius - 05-10-2013
What sort of weapons do you use, though, Martin? If NF, then the impact is very slight. With wood or blunt metal semi-full contact, as some below are advocating, the damage to whatever is hit would greatly increase, wouldn't it?
BTW, good to see your post. How's that trident holding up?
Too slow! Get moving! - martin1 - 05-10-2013
The weapons are carved red oak. The "punches" are not pulled. So far, with broken fingers and cracked clavicles, the fighters take a greater beating than the equipment.
Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-11-2013
martin1, thank you for your input. So it's quality control, then? Say I buy a Deepeeka helmet and one of the welds is weak. I take it to a local metalworker and have it rewelded for a few dollars. Then it would be fine, correct?
Too slow! Get moving! - john m roberts - 05-11-2013
Darin,
Where in Kentucky are you located? I live in New Mexico but get to the Lexington/Richmond area a few times a year on visits.
Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-11-2013
John,
That's convenient: we're in Lexington.
Too slow! Get moving! - martin1 - 05-16-2013
Make sure the visor components of the Deepeeka helmets fit tightly (many have loose fitting visor halves); they may need to be reinforced. I see no problem as long as you inspect the helmets carefully and strengthen them where needed. You might consider steel AER Chieti style helmets (for thraex, hoplomachus and myrmillo) as better made but still reasonably priced. I would just discourage the Berlin subtype except as a great display piece. As I said, too much of a pain to get on and off.
Too slow! Get moving! - cn.caelius - 05-16-2013
What is "reasonably priced"? I've found the Deepeeka Thraex helmet for USD$280+shipping, if I remember correctly. That's a bit more than I'd like to spend right now for a practice helmet. I just bought one of those cheap iron Greek Corinthian helmets (the ones which have the ridge going across the nasal piece; not Deepeeka, I don't think). It's huge, but that just leaves more room for padding.
It was USD$35, which is great for a practice helmet that I don't mind denting and scratching.
Too slow! Get moving! - richard robinson - 05-17-2013
`Suhel quoted me $300 for a gladiator helmet (with 2mm thick steel) . I also recieved a similar quote from a friend in Australia (it would also have been 2mm) so it all depends on your point of view. I keep scanning ebay for the helmets of choice. they dont come up as regularly as they once did but there are some that appear from time to time and you have to hope other RATers do not spot them!
regards Richard
Too slow! Get moving! - Olaf - 05-17-2013
As long as you are only practicing and are just starting out, any form of head protection can be used. But once you want to start to reconstruct fighting techniques it is is best to have gear that resembles the original pieces in weight and shape as form follows function in Gladiator gear.
You Cold Steel wasters for example are good for pre Augustan Gladiators that still fought at a good distance due to their open faced helmets and military length swords, but post Augustan Gladiators had only 30cm to 40cm Gladii creating a much closer fighting distance and better protection for the face. Later the brim moves down to shoulder level, the manicae start to be constructed om ring or scale armor and later even cover part of the torso. This is probably why we see a lot more grappling and wrestling in later Iconography.
As you see it makes sense to focus on a specific timeframe and not mix items from different centuries.
We actually have a great wealth of Iconography and enough originals from the Pompejan Ludus to paint a good picture of Gladiatorial gear around 79 a sAD.