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Roman army engineers - Ursus Germanicus - 11-07-2013
Hallo RAT-members,
I wonder if there is any historical or archaeological evidence for special engineer units at some point in the Roman Army. I couldn't find any yet.
From what I understand every legionary learned a craft after his military (boot camp) education and was soldier and craftsman in the same time.
But were there special units with "heavy equipment" and specialist for stuff like bridge building or something like that?
Thanks already.
Roman army engineers - PhilusEstilius - 11-07-2013
If we consider that the emperor Nero brought Vespasian back into the fold to take over in Judea from the point of view that this man was a master at siege warfare, as proved in his part with the invasion of Britain under Claudius so he may have pulled together old friends and comrades who could take on this war for the emperor.
Roman army engineers - agrimensor - 11-07-2013
Think about the surveyor with is immunes and the architect these where the men who did the thinking, then the immunes craftsmen mason and carpenter, smith, and so on did the construction work and supervised, the miles gregalis did the hard labour.
Roman army engineers - Frank - 11-07-2013
Quote:From what I understand every legionary learned a craft after his military (boot camp) education and was soldier and craftsman in the same time
Not all! Just the immunes, which have been about 20% of the soldiers iirc. Of course they could use standard legionairs as workforce, if needed.
Therfore there have been no special units, e.g a cohors architecti. A lot of the specialists, e.g in the valetudinarium or the local fabrica reported to the prafectus castrorum as the head of logistics. But they were not organized in separate units. They were on the payroll of one of the 60 centuries of a legion. Even the librarii in the central office of a legion or a governor were still on the payroll of a century. That was a kind of Matrix-Organisation, e.g. a librarius legati had two bosses, his centurio and the cornicularius legati.
I guess, that in late empire e.g. the centralized fabricae were organized as independent units. But they were not part of the legion.
PS: there are some hints, that some very high qualified experts were civil contractors. Perhaps some architecti or medici, but ot all. I assume, that they nevertheless needed to be on the roll of a signifer to get any money.
PSS: Btw, how do you say logistics or infrastructure in latin ? :?
Roman army engineers - Vindex - 11-07-2013
Mind gone blank but there was a general brought back from Britain (?) to oversee the aqueducts in Rome...
Roman army engineers - D B Campbell - 11-08-2013
Quote:there was a general brought back from Britain (?) to oversee the aqueducts in Rome...That was more of a political appointment, Moi. Frontinus was a high-flyer at Rome during the change of regime from the Flavians to Nerva/Trajan -- arguably, the high-flyer, given his three consulships (very rare), two of them as Trajan's colleague (verrrrrry rare).
Roman army engineers - Nathan Ross - 11-08-2013
Quote:Vindex post=346284 Wrote:a general brought back from Britain (?) to oversee the aqueducts in Rome...Frontinus
Or maybe you were thinking of Petronius Turpilianus, who governed Britain just after the Boudica revolt and then went directly back to Rome to serve as curator aquarum? Like Frontinus, though, he was a senator and his aqueduct-overseeing post was political and very prestigious. There was a freedman, later equestrian, procurator aquarum who probably managed most of the real work...
Roman army engineers - Vindex - 11-08-2013
Quote:Vindex post=346284 Wrote:there was a general brought back from Britain (?) to oversee the aqueducts in Rome...That was more of a political appointment, Moi. Frontinus was a high-flyer at Rome during the change of regime from the Flavians to Nerva/Trajan -- arguably, the high-flyer, given his three consulships (very rare), two of them as Trajan's colleague (verrrrrry rare).
That's the bloke! Although I was under the impression that the way he wrote about the aqueducts it indicated more than just an academic or poolitical interest.
Roman army engineers - Vindex - 11-08-2013
Quote:D B Campbell post=346289 Wrote:Vindex post=346284 Wrote:a general brought back from Britain (?) to oversee the aqueducts in Rome...Frontinus
Or maybe you were thinking of Petronius Turpilianus, who governed Britain just after the Boudica revolt and then went directly back to Rome to serve as curator aquarum? Like Frontinus, though, he was a senator and his aqueduct-overseeing post was political and very prestigious. There was a freedman, later equestrian, procurator aquarum who probably managed most of the real work...
It was Frontinus I was thinking of , but thank you for this info as not heard of this chap.
Roman army engineers - Epictetus - 11-10-2013
I think engineers were rare and valuable. Pliny asked Trajan for one repeatedly when he was governor of Bithynia and Pontus, but Trajan told him to find one himself. I guess the emperor didn't have any to send.
Roman army engineers - D B Campbell - 11-10-2013
Quote:Pliny asked Trajan for one repeatedly when he was governor of Bithynia and Pontus, but Trajan told him to find one himself. I guess the emperor didn't have any to send.It's perhaps worth noting that Bithynia et Pontus was an unarmed province, so Pliny had no army units to draw upon. Trajan advises him (Letters 10.42) to ask the governor of neighbouring Moesia Inferior (a two-legion province) for a legionary engineer.
Roman army engineers - D B Campbell - 11-10-2013
Quote:Nero brought Vespasian back into the fold to take over in Judea from the point of view that this man was a master at siege warfare, as proved in his part with the invasion of Britain under Claudius ...I believe this is a common misconception, Brian. In my view, Vespasian was sent to Judaea because he happened to be at hand in Nero's retinue in Greece and had the twin virtues of (1) not being an aristocrat (so no threat to Nero) and (2) having the required seniority to command a three-legion army. Despite Josephus talking up his military abilities, he was now 60 years old and hadn't seen active service for 23 years. Nero was not noted for his sensible decisions, and he may even have selected Vespasian (imho) as a punishment for having fallen asleep during one of the emperor's interminable recitations (Suet., Vesp. 4.4).
Roman army engineers - PhilusEstilius - 11-10-2013
Duncan.
That may be correct but then did not Vespasian settle into retirement after his Greek sleep and go back to raising Mules ( hence his nick name ) then sort after by Nero.