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+--- Thread: \'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' (/showthread.php?tid=22228)
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Nathan Ross - 03-03-2013
Can anyone explain to me why so many academic books use the strange formula 'at Rome' when talking about things, people, or events in Rome?
The most obvious example is the British School at Rome. There's an American Academy in Rome, so is this just a slightly archaic Britishism?
It turns up all over the place though:
"Social Life At Rome In The Age Of Cicero"
"Work, Identity, and Legal Status at Rome"
"the list of public buildings constructed at Rome between 200 and 78 B.C..."
"it is difficult to define architecture at Rome as distinct from other Italic forms..."
"At Rome public monuments were a primary means of displaying the emperor's accomplishments..."
etc... :unsure:
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-03-2013
Must be one of those weird Britishisms.... :evil:
Like putting 'an' before words starting with 'H', even though it's
a,e,i,o and u.. :whistle:
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Epictetus - 03-03-2013
Actually, I think ‘at’ is entirely appropriate. Not only does it express spatial or local position, as the OED points out, but it is often used with proper names of towns, ‘usually those of public or private importance.’ You might have one meeting ‘at Washington’ and another ‘in Springfield.’ I would say Rome has both public and private importance.
And ‘an’ is used for the sound, not the spelling. The ‘h’ is silent in ‘hour,’ Byron!
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-03-2013
You would be surprised where it gets used.....
An history lesson, an Historical moment....not silent at all...
I am at the train station in Washington DC...is correct.
I am in the Capitol at Washington DC is not....
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Lyceum - 03-03-2013
Yes, it depends whether the object/subject is oblique or direct in most cases, we no longer have a proper locative system.
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Vindex - 03-04-2013
Ah yes; the demise of the locative!
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-04-2013
At is perfectly appropriate. We learn very complex forms of english inadvertantly in Latin class.
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Vindex - 03-04-2013
Hmm...used to be called grammar in my day!
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Nathan Ross - 03-04-2013
Quote:You might have one meeting ‘at Washington’ and another ‘in Springfield.’ I would say Rome has both public and private importance.
Hmm, really? I've never heard anyone saying they were 'at New York' or 'at London'... In fact a quick scan through Google Books reveals that the construction 'at London' expired c.1810...
In current usage (I would say) 'at' is used for a general point of location ('at work' / 'at home / 'at the pub'), while 'in' is used for a physical position within larger spatial limits ('in Devon' / 'in Tokyo' / 'in bed')
You could say 'at' expresses temporal as well as physical position, but the sentence 'there was a great fire at 17th century London' doesn't really ring true either, to me at least!
So 'at Rome or 'at Athens' does seem a rather archaic donnish affectation... Or is it more widely acceptable?
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Kegluneq - 03-04-2013
Quote:So 'at Rome or 'at Athens' does seem a rather archaic donnish affectation... Or is it more widely acceptable?This leads into the only common usage of 'At [place]' I can immediately think of, as in 'he's a lecturer at Oxford' or 'she's studying Biochemistry at Cambridge'. Of course there the place name is a shortened form of '[place] university' so that doesn't help much.
For claims of it being a Britishism it certainly looks odd to me - but then I don't write or speak grammar the good.
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Nathan Ross - 03-04-2013
Quote:the only common usage of 'At [place]' I can immediately think of, as in 'he's a lecturer at Oxford' or 'she's studying Biochemistry at Cambridge'.
Yes, I'd say you would be at an institution, in a place. Saying that you were studying at The American Academy in Rome (or even 'of Rome'!) would seem to make more sense than saying you were studying at The British School at Rome...
By 'Britishism' I'm referring only to usage within British academia specifically - it seems to have no wider application. Why this should be I don't know...
:errr:
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - Robert - 03-04-2013
I suppose the most important thing is to feel AT home IN Rome
illy:
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - ScipioAsina - 03-05-2013
It could be the product of whatever Latin/grammar instruction they received. For Latin texts, translators usually render the locative Romae as "at Rome," because "in Rome" would specifically be in Roma (in + ablative).
Consider this line from Cicero: utinam is quidem Romae esset! Romae est. utinam adesset in iudicio! adest. (If only he would actually be at Rome! He is at Rome. If only he would be present in court! He is present.)
I couldn't actually find any examples that used in Roma, so maybe that's why you see "at Rome" more often than "in Rome."
\'In Rome\' / \'At Rome\' - PhilusEstilius - 03-05-2013
It is now about eight years since I was in Rome and I think it is time that I was going back to Rome.