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+--- Thread: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? (/showthread.php?tid=21222)
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Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Currahee Chris - 08-16-2012
This is an emperor I have only read about here and there though he sounds pretty impressive. A little hard on the Christians but seemed to be a good ruler for Rome at the time. Seemed to be somewhat "pro-military". Could he be viewed in the same light as Marcus Aurelius or Hadrian? Was his generalship on par with Vespasian??
Just curious what the forum opinions are and if anyone can recommend any books.
Best regards
CC
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Jona Lendering - 08-16-2012
There are two biographies: A.R. Birley, Septimius Severus. The African Emperor (1971; revised 1988) and Jörg Spielvogel, Septimius Severus (2006). The last one is written in German, is up-to-date and deserves a wider audience, but I am not optimistic that it will be translated.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - D B Campbell - 08-16-2012
Quote:... and Jörg Spielvogel, Septimius Severus (2006).Thanks, Jona. I had not heard of that one.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-16-2012
Well, If it was translated onto English, it would probably be guaranteed a wider audience!
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Nathan Ross - 08-16-2012
I am, a bit. He was undoubtably one of the more significant emperors, and his reign is usually seen as a turning point, for good or ill. He was probably not a very pleasant person - publicly trampling his horse over the corpse of Clodius Albinus, then sending death squads to kill all his supporters in Rome, seems a bit excessive. Compared to an cultured intellectual like Marcus Aurelius, Severus seems almost barbaric, but he was an educated man - he did quote Homer before ordering the extermination of the Caledonians, after all!
Quote:Seemed to be somewhat "pro-military".Somewhat. His dying words to his sons were something along the lines of "enrich the soldiers, and despise everyone else." :wink:
Opinions vary as to whether Severus held the empire together at a time of crisis, or actually created the crisis with a series of ill-considered reforms. He was certainly a great military commander, and his rule saw near-constant and mainly successful campaigning from Parthia to Gaul and from Africa to Britain - he led from the front and marched with his men (a habit taken to silly extremes by his deranged son Caracalla, unfortunately.) He increased the size of the army and reconstituted the Praetorian Guard. His military strategy seemed to rely on steamrollering the opposition with massive brute force, which worked most of the time but led to a costly and drawn-out stalemate in Britain.
Some critics (MacMullen, for one, I think) believe that Severus' army reforms - raising military pay, allowing soldiers to marry - weakened the traditional culture of the army. Others, more importantly, see the increasing power of the army in deciding state affairs as a product of the Severan era, and a direct contribution to the 'military anarchy' of the third century. Severus does seem to have begun, or advanced, the process of taking military command out of the hands of senators and giving it to skilled career soldiers from the equestrian order. This perhaps created the culture of military professionalism and disrespect for traditional power structures that led to the chaos, but this same culture (in the form of the military emperors, Aurelian and after) was ultimately to put an end to it.
It's hard for us to tell how much Severus was an innovator in military affairs - we don't know enough about the army of Marcus and Commodus to appreciate how much he inherited. The Severan era was the cusp of a great change, but how much Severus was responsible for the change and how much he was just riding along on top of it is debatable. He did shift the political focus of the empire away from Italy though - African himself, his wife and her very influential family were from Syria. This, again, would have future repercussions.
As for books - Jona's mentioned Birley. Your best bet might be to go back to the sources first of all though:
Cassius Dio was an eyewitness to the era - Book 75, 76 and 77 of his Roman History cover the reign of Severus, albeit in later epitome.
Then there's the more chatty and less reliable Historia Augusta, which also has some interesting information.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Jona Lendering - 08-16-2012
Quote:Well, If it was translated onto English, it would probably be guaranteed a wider audience!Actually, this is, in my opinion, one of the most important problem for modern scholarship: once there is an English book about a subject, the English-language market is locked, and better, newer publications will just not be translated. The only solution is that foreigners write directly in English, but that will inevitably be a less beautiful English.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-16-2012
Yes I think you have mentioned it before Jona. I wonder though,
As there seem to be several books covering the same subject available these days.
Caesar, and I think more than one on M. Aurelius?
It would be nice to see more available on a variety of subjects.
At the moment, I seems fashionable for all and sundry to knock Caesar,
While not offering an In depth analysis of the man in relation to the times.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - starman2012 - 08-16-2012
Quote: publicly trampling his horse over the corpse of Clodius Albinus, then sending death squads to kill all his supporters in Rome,
Considering the high casualties in 197, maybe he should've tried a different approach. Tell Clodius to come to Rome to look after things at the center while he was away in the East, and have assassins kill him there. That is, lure him away from his main power base in Britain and dispose of him without civil war.
Quote:He was certainly a great military commander, and his rule saw near-constant and mainly successful campaigning from Parthia to Gaul and from Africa to Britain
I dunno...he failed twice at Hatra where the Persians later succeeded and at Logdunum the issue seemed in doubt at first.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - Currahee Chris - 08-16-2012
Hey Nathan
Thanks for the wonderful reply. I had read his dying words. Seemed pretty practical for a man in his position as last remarks to his son.
I seemed to have forgotten that he was involved in Britain. I have read of his actions in the Middle East. Interesting as it seems there is rather little written on the man. he did seem to have quite the go at things.
best regards to everyone!!
CC
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - starman2012 - 08-16-2012
Quote:I have read of his actions in the Middle East. Interesting as it seems there is rather little written on the man. he did seem to have quite the go at things.
It's remarkable that not one year after Lugdunum, and earlier losses to the eastern army, he was able to take Ctesiphon. The army was still its resilient old self.
mile:
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - D B Campbell - 08-16-2012
Quote:..., but that will inevitably be a less beautiful English.Not necessarily, Jona. I have read my fair share of excruciatingly badly written (English) books and articles. :roll:
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - D B Campbell - 08-16-2012
Quote:It would be nice to see more available on a variety of subjects.I've been pestering Osprey (since 2010) to add Septimius Severus to their "Command" series, but their marketing folk tell them it wouldn't sell. :roll: Maybe more people need to request it. (Hint, hint.)
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - PhilusEstilius - 08-18-2012
Tim Donovan said that Severus should have had Clodius Albinus come to Rome to have had him sorted out there, however I don't think Clodius would have been so foolish as to have fallen for that idea.
In fact I think that many provincial commanders had no other alternative than to take up the challenge when their troops claimed them as the new leader of the Roman world for to have refused would have been fatal.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - John W Davison - 08-20-2012
I have added a Septimius Severus request to their "Books I'd Like to Read" box, and incidentally noticed that they have in this month's vote "Gladius" in the Weapon series as a voting option, so have added my vote there, too.
Re: Any fans of Septimius Severus out there?? - starman2012 - 08-20-2012
Quote:Tim Donovan said that Severus should have had Clodius Albinus come to Rome to have had him sorted out there, however I don't think Clodius would have been so foolish as to have fallen for that idea.
In fact I think that many provincial commanders had no other alternative than to take up the challenge when their troops claimed them as the new leader of the Roman world for to have refused would have been fatal.
I meant prior to the open break, which led to civil war. Albinus was sucker enough to believe Severus's acceptance of him as co-emperor even though Severus had sons he'd presumably want to be successors i.e. Albinus evidently didn't realize it was just a temporary, tactical measure, enabling Severus to finish his eastern enemy first. Considering the importance of conserving army strength for use against Parthians and others, luring "sucker" Albinus from his British power base to Rome would've been worth a try.