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+--- Thread: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP (/showthread.php?tid=21203)
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Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-13-2012
Ok all of you Roman Helmet experts. Please check over this helmet I am considering to purchase. Can anyone identify what style Helmet this is?
Historical Accuracy?
Worth Purchasing or passing if I were to make it a part of my "Kit?" I am not currently with a reenactment group so I need your input.
Please don't scold me to harshly if I should have posted this in another area. I wasn't really sure If I should have posted here or somewhere in the market place threads.
I have photo-shopped out any seller information and I am not sure who manufactures it. I just want to "Buyer Beware" this as much as I can before making a purchase. Would this helmet be allowed in your Group? Why or why not?
ANd... if this isn't the place to post this, again, I am sorry. Just post your comments by sending me a private message.
Thank you...
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-13-2012
Also... I am VERY open to correction... if I made a mistake in posting it here... just tell me where to post this type of question in the future... Thank you...
PAtrick
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - jvrjenivs - 08-13-2012
Well, certainly not the worst helmet you can get, but I would still avoid it. There are better helmet available for a similar (or only little higher) price.
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - jvrjenivs - 08-13-2012
Quote:Also... I am VERY open to correction... if I made a mistake in posting it here... just tell me where to post this type of question in the future... Thank you...
Your post seems to be in the right spot, although the 'marketplace' could be more appropriate. No problem to excuse for that.
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Gaius Colletti - 08-18-2012
You want to buy a helmet? Last I checked you were making these things! lol It appears to be the house brand Gallic H from Find It Armory: https://ssl.perfora.net/finditarmory.com/sess/utn15502eed84ce242/shopdata/index.shopscript
The bowl looks a little deep, amd I would check the dimensions of the neckguard, the last thing you want is a neckguard so low or angled oddly that it rest on your shoulders of your armor making moving your head uncomfortable or impossible.
But personally the reconstruction of the Gallic H helmet is so conjectural, who's to say that the helmet is that much less inaccurate than Deepeeka's, which is based on the reconstruction put together by Robinson, incorporating the cheekpieces from the Colchester fragments. Of course the Deepeeka/Robinson's version does appear to have much more Roman plausible accents than the one from Find it Armory
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-18-2012
Hey Matt... Hmmmmm You may have me confused with someone else... I don't think I would take on the challenge of making a helmet. Or you were thinking about the Muscle Cuirass... Which I am still considering.
On the other hand... I appreciate your perspective about this helmet I was inquiring about. I left out the place that sold it on purpose. It is NOT from Find It Armory. I put pictures side by side with thiers... and... kind of wish I would have gotten theirs instead... LOL.
What happened was an axious whim... on Ebay. It looked bettter then most helmets you find on Ebay and it had a "Best Offer" on the auction. Before I knew it... they took my Best offer... Oh well... there is always modifications.
I do agree with you on the Gallic H though... that is, if Deepeeka and Find It Armory's are correct. Now... to research the Gallic H so I know something about what I bought.
My Kit making venture seems to change daily. But I am seriously leaning towards the Optio Impression. Thinking Lorica Segmentata... Now to find some that will fit this body.
Thanks again... you are always helpful.
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Gaius Colletti - 08-18-2012
Whoops, sorry I did have you confused with someone else. My first couple helmets were a mistake, a trooper helmet and an old style Deepeeka Gallic G. Your helm is still one of the better reproductions out there, still I wouldn't try to pass it off as a Gallic H per se, the angling of your neckguard appears to be closer in comparrison to a Gallic G, realistically though the Gallic H is a G with a differently angled neckguard, the original Gallic H from Augsburg (to my knowledge, this is the only example) was found in such horrible condition, I'm surprised Robinson made a recreation of it, and I'm still unsure why he used the Colchester fragments as a basis for the Gallic H's cheekguards, from what I have seen of the Colchester pieces, there is barely enough to assemble a whole piece between them
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-19-2012
I thought that one of the other differences between the "G" and the "H" was the wings. The "H" has 3 flutes whereas the "G" has two?
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Gaius Colletti - 08-19-2012
Even that is being debated. In an old thread, someone pointed out that it did appear to have a third, albeit small flute, but it was very hard to make out... There is a thread about it somewhere
It is commonly accepted that the Gallic G has only two flutes though. However, your helmet has both a handle on the neckguard, and hooks for the plume, whereas the H (again it was in horrible shape, and the helmet database is down so I can't get a good look at the original) just has rings, and as I already mentioned the neckguard is more along the lines of a G anyways.
Get a good look at the Deepeeka Gallic H, which is a near dead on representation of Robinson's recreation of the Gallic H: http://legvi.tripod.com/armamentarium/id241.html
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-19-2012
Helmet Data base? Where? Is there other Data bases too? Am I missing something?
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Gaius Colletti - 08-19-2012
The helmet database is a collection of all (or most) known Roman helmets, assorted by type, so if you looked up "Gallic G" you could see all of the known examples of the type, the majority of the helmets had pictures of various angles from the museum they are housed in, so you could get a pretty good look of what a reproduction should look like. Unfortunately is has been down for several months and I don't know when it will be back up
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - jkaler48 - 08-19-2012
It is very important to check even more recently made helmets for accuracy against all the known variations. Some people feel that reproductions must closely follow a specific known helmet. Others feel that since there is such a variety of some types of helmets known that reproduction helmets that have features from two or more closely related helmets are acceptable. Older helmets may be based on reconstructions that are now thought to be incorrect and then there is the problem of copies of copies and stuff the maker thought would look neat. A pretty safe place to start is with the RAT vendors that sell the big three Indian companies Deepekka DSC and Al Hammdt or if you have a larger budget commission exactly what you want from one of the individual Armorers here on RAT. You can also order a custom helmet thru the RAT retail vendors for somewhere in between the off the rack and the individual Armorers price.
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - Pointer - 08-19-2012
So the Helmet Data Base was here on RAT? Or somewhere else? Are there Data Bases for other parts of the Roman Armor?
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - jvrjenivs - 08-19-2012
Quote:So the Helmet Data Base was here on RAT? Or somewhere else? Are there Data Bases for other parts of the Roman Armor?
On the Romanarmy.com mainsite it was. Next to the helmet database there was also the imagebase, with photo's of grave stones. Fortunatelly Mike Bishop is now uploading all his gravestone pictures to an online photo-service. Next an facebook user (cohors praetoria) is uploading hundreds of pictures of helmet, armour, etc to his profile.
Both seems to be good resources for further research.
Re: Helmet Identification and Historical Accuracy HELP - tiberius aemilius naso - 08-19-2012
Since a few days ago i can't find the collections of photos in the Cohors Praetoria facebook page. Is just me or is someone else having this problem?