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+--- Thread: Centurion insignia around 200 AD (/showthread.php?tid=2120)
Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Flavius Promotus - 12-14-2003
Hi folks,<br>
do we have any iconographical evidence, how centurions looked around 200 AD ? The question of helmet and cresta is especially important. I was wondering, whether a Nidermoermter with a cresta might have looked too idiculolus...<br>
Any reliefs, paintings, etc. ?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
FLAVIUS PROMOTUS <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flaviuspromotus@romanarmytalk>FLAVIUS PROMOTUS</A> at: 12/14/03 4:57 pm<br></i>
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Publius Aelius Lucius - 04-20-2007
hi
an interesting asks before long time emerged there :wink: perhaps gives it today answers on it :?: I am very much interested in it :!:
and it still gave which indications of its command authority in the 3rd century :?:
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Peroni - 04-20-2007
Of the two surviving Niedermoermter Italic H types, the Mouse and loaf helmet from the Guttmann collection (AG800) is the only one that has a fitment to accommodate any form of crest attachment.
It is in the form of a ring, and could be used to attach a horsehair plume.
Nothing that I can see to stop you using either of the Italic D types (Mainz and Krefeld) though! :wink:
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Titus Martius - 04-20-2007
Quote:Of the two surviving Niedermoermter Italic H types, the Mouse and loaf helmet from the Guttmann collection (AG800) is the only one that has a fitment to accommodate any form of crest attachment.
It is in the form of a ring, and could be used to attach a horsehair plume.
What about Imperial Italic H 5 (Wijk bij Duurstede)? It has Imperial Gallic like crest holder...
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Peroni - 04-20-2007
Martin,
Ah! yes, I'd forgotten that one!
I'm not entirely convinced of it's given typology, but it would seem to fit with the period. Looks more like a typical third Century Aux cavalry or infantry type to me.
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Titus Martius - 04-20-2007
Quote:Martin,
Ah! yes, I'd forgotten that one!
I'm not entirely convinced of it's given typology, but it would seem to fit with the period. Looks more like a typical third Century Aux cavalry or infantry type to me.
I have only two pictures of this helmet, here is second. Unfortunately I don't have more informations about it, however it would be suitable for late 2nd and early 3rd century centurion impression with crest...
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Mithras - 04-20-2007
Florian, try Bishop & Coulston's RME2, in the colour plate section (plate eight) is a bronze buckle in the shape of a Nidermoermter with a full size crest!
It is the only one as far as I know - but sets a precedent. Centurion's transverse crest should therefore not be ruled out.
Also, I would opt for a longer vitus than the Principate, tending toward the 4thC waist high staffs.
As you well know, the whole 3rd C is a transition period - but that is why we love it so much!
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Tarbicus - 04-21-2007
Why does everyone assume that a transverse creast means 'centurion'?
Quote:FIt is the only one as far as I know - but sets a precedent.
Plate 8(b) in B&C2 is possibly a Niedermormter, but not definitely, especially as the cheek piece extends to cover the ears with the usual ear coverings seen on cavalry helmets. It's also a brooch.
And, the crest on that B&C2 helmet representation goes from front to back, not transverse.
All it says is a cavalry helm had a crest running front to back.
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... ederbieber
Re: Centurion insignia around 200 AD - Publius Aelius Lucius - 04-23-2007
Quote:Also, I would opt for a longer vitus than the Principate, tending toward the 4thC waist high staffs.
which would be to be considered :wink:
or different colour one clothes :?: but in the heat of combat.....
to say too few helmets found around more details :roll: