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+--- Thread: Thermopylae Film! (/showthread.php?tid=20247)
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-09-2012
Well, if it was a mini series, you could revert to the Marathon clash, possibly with the Ionian revolts as the introduction and the coming storm to follow.
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Dithrambus - 02-09-2012
Quote:Well, if it was a mini series, you could revert to the Marathon clash, possibly with the Ionian revolts as the introduction and the coming storm to follow.
Yes it would require a series to include all of the events leading up to the clash and then to move forward to Plataia, Mykale etc. A film would need to focus primarily on the battle with some quick background narrative, and as Howard mentioned, a scene of the conference at Korinth could establish the atmosphere and provide some background. While I would enjoy any relatively accurate portrayal of the battle and the events leading up to and those afterwards, I dislike the time compression as seen in lots of other films, Alexander for example is a relatively long film, but leaves so much out and the bouncing back and forward in time is rather annoying (IMO).
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-09-2012
I agree entirely, too much left out, might as well not bother.
These sort of movies would do well to go down the LOTR route, three excellent films that follow the books pretty closely, at least to my memory.
The characters need fleshing out though, and not just the leading ones.
The Rome series took a leaf out of Pressfield (to me) by using lower totem pole figures as leading characters, as wel las 3 dimensional historical figures, like Caesar, Antony, Cleopatra etc..
These stories are just so full of potential, I realised that we don't need fiction/fantasy
with a history as rich as our planets...
Another thing which led me into re-enactment.Who wants to be Dracula at Halloween when you can be Caesar, or to be a true horror figure, but too controversial, Hitler!!
anyway thats diverging...
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Macedon - 02-09-2012
How about the heroes being on the side of the Persians?
The film starts with Xerxes deciding to attack Greece, the awe inspiring collection of his armament, accusations against the Greeks regarding the reasons advertised as pretext for the campaign... The crossing of the Hellespont, the march through Thrace and Macedonia, the rumors of the Greeks holding the passes to Thessaly. The subjugation of the medizing Greeks and then Thermopylae...
The battle scenes should be filmed from the Persian perspective as unit after unit attacks the positions of the Lacedaemonians... as their feeling of superiority abates, in comes fear... Then the encircling force sets out round the pass, the Persian camp is attacked, dawn comes and the Greeks are encircled and finally eliminated. They cannot but admire the Greeks' self-sacrifice, they might not approve of the King's treatment of the body of the Greek general, yet they won and they again take heart. They might also wonder at the fanatism of the Thebans who the initially feared as potential betrayers, maybe even welcome some helot deserters, Greek slaves, and comment on how Greeks enslave Greeks and then talk of freedom. Somewhere in between, one of our heroes might take part in the naval action and as Athens is burning and the fleet is preparing to face the Greeks at Salaminae, our heroes have to return to Asia Minor for some reason...
Now, this would be something different I'd like to see...
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-09-2012
Hmmmm, was only the Spartans who enslaved their fellows, was it not?
Actually, thanks for reminding me of Salamis....now that would be awesome to include....
Still can't quite see the Persians as heros.. :lol:
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Macedon - 02-09-2012
Bah... all Greeks enslaved other Greeks..
As for the Persians, why not? We make them beat up some Ethiopians, gallop down some Thracian skirmishers attacking some innocent Ionian traders, have a quarrel with some Lydians over who is of more noble descent... We can have them spy on the Greek camp, kill some Thespians in the process, treat the poor helot deserters humanely... How about freeing a fair Persian maid (Angelina?) from some piggy medized Greek with a lash ? Lots of hero staff there. Banderas would be a good choice, although the Arian Persians might have been of a lighter complexion, in which case we might consider approaching Brad for a leading role.
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-09-2012
No Brad.... Now Jenifer Aniston (who is Greek) would be good. :oops:
Banderas, yes, I like him.
Quote:Quote:Bah... all Greeks enslaved other Greeks..
Yes, I suppose to a certain extent yes, but not in the official policy way of the Spartans.
Jollie maybe, she has a certain exotic quality...(could be the drugs)
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Dithrambus - 02-10-2012
Quote:No Brad.... Now Jenifer Aniston (who is Greek) would be good. :oops:
Banderas, yes, I like him.
Quote:Quote:Bah... all Greeks enslaved other Greeks..
Yes, I suppose to a certain extent yes, but not in the official policy way of the Spartans.
Jollie maybe, she has a certain exotic quality...(could be the drugs)
Who do you think worked the Athenian silver mines? ;-)
As for Greek actresses, I do like Jennifer Anniston, but my favorite living goddess is Maria Menounos! (Oh my.. :twisted: )
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-10-2012
Quote:Who do you think worked the Athenian silver mines?
Bad people and Orcs??? :?: :-o
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Dithrambus - 02-10-2012
Quote:Quote:Who do you think worked the Athenian silver mines?
Bad people and Orcs??? :?: :-o
Exactly! :lol:
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-10-2012
Quote:Gaius Julius Caesar post=306283 Wrote:Quote:Who do you think worked the Athenian silver mines?
Bad people and Orcs??? :?: :-o
Exactly! :lol:
See, Athenian=good.....Spartan=bad...simpulz!
but seriously, yes your right...but war prisoners I think as opposed to whole peoples put into slavery.
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Dithrambus - 02-10-2012
Quote:How about the heroes being on the side of the Persians?
The film starts with Xerxes deciding to attack Greece, the awe inspiring collection of his armament, accusations against the Greeks regarding the reasons advertised as pretext for the campaign... The crossing of the Hellespont, the march through Thrace and Macedonia, the rumors of the Greeks holding the passes to Thessaly. The subjugation of the medizing Greeks and then Thermopylae...
The battle scenes should be filmed from the Persian perspective as unit after unit attacks the positions of the Lacedaemonians... as their feeling of superiority abates, in comes fear... Then the encircling force sets out round the pass, the Persian camp is attacked, dawn comes and the Greeks are encircled and finally eliminated. They cannot but admire the Greeks' self-sacrifice, they might not approve of the King's treatment of the body of the Greek general, yet they won and they again take heart. They might also wonder at the fanatism of the Thebans who the initially feared as potential betrayers, maybe even welcome some helot deserters, Greek slaves, and comment on how Greeks enslave Greeks and then talk of freedom. Somewhere in between, one of our heroes might take part in the naval action and as Athens is burning and the fleet is preparing to face the Greeks at Salaminae, our heroes have to return to Asia Minor for some reason...
Now, this would be something different I'd like to see...
Yes, I like the sound of that! Of course I have expressed from the beginning of the thread that the Persian perspective would need to be presented to ensure an accurate portrayal of the events in question. :-)
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Lyceum - 02-10-2012
This thread is getting interesting again....stupid paper getting in the way of giving actual replies.
I would say two things. 1) Gaius slavery was an important part of Greek "economics" and we shouldn't judge them for it. We shouldn't praise them for it either but times were different back then. Finley (1975?) on the Greek economy is probably the best introduction to this. Social stratification in the Greek world is really difficult to study pre Hellenistic age outside of Athens, it's worth remembering that we don't know much even about the Spartans. I don't think anyone has truly managed to work out how the rather large amount of various social terms they seemed to have actually fit together properly.
2) Putting the Persians as heroes wouldn't work either, it would be pretty boring. If we want to explore the Persian side, and I think we ought to, it would have to be in connection with the various administrators etc involved with Asia minor..trapped between two worlds as it were. As for actors I'd want actual Mediterranean actors, you know actual Greeks as can be found all over Greece, particularly islanders actually since, you know...they look shockingly like the faces you see on later funerary art, early pottery etc.
I'd like to see more Athenian involvement then is traditional when telling this story too. After all they emerge as the new dons As for the Spartans...well...Leonidas needs to be a monumental figure in more ways than having really tight abs. In fact I don't even want to see any abs. Put your damn armour on man, those arrows aren't kisses.
Also let's end on a depressing note: The Persians were pushed back, sure, but would still b major players in the area until Alexandros marched south and east and though the mainland Greeks might be finding their feet...well the Athenians in particular soon turned aggressor than tyrant. Intelligent commentary on human nature and space for several sequels? BOOM!
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-10-2012
Yes, I am aware of the slave issue..just playing the blind patriot bit, again! lol
I am actually pretty well read on this, but with so much going on in the last few years, a lot of things are getting blurred.
Been a while since I read the Greek history, as Roman re-enacting took formost,
plus new job, requiring massive learning curve as well.
hock:
Re: Thermopylae Film! - Ghostmojo - 02-10-2012
Without getting carried away with a wave of Pro-Persian sentiment - yes, the invaders from the East should be shown with dignity and bravery, and a certain degree of neutrality could be taken by the film producers/directors. But let's not forget about Thermopylai's main story.
I'm sorry to say this - but the Persians are THE baddies. They are invading the territory of independent peoples who object to such militaristic imperialism. We are duty-bound as an audience to support the non-aggressors and put-upon. The story of Thermopylai is essentially down to the decisions made by three different groups in the face of aggression. After the confederate Greeks withdraw we have Spartans, Thespians and Thebans. The Spartans have to stay and fight - the Thespians don't, but they choose to - the Thebans probably are hostages to fortune and duck out as soon as possible (we guess).
I can see the merits of a TV series about the larger period - but really Thermopylai is the memorable event - that is the only bit that has serious cinematic potential (as has been proven twice previously).