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+--- Thread: Tombstones (/showthread.php?tid=20034)
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 02-01-2012
Quote:Can we discuss the belts now please??? :mrgreen:Does anything need discussing?! They are the most straightforward part of this tombstone. I must admit, when I first started out in military equipment, I thought inlaid plates might be earlier than embossed ones, but this was one of the tombstones that showed me the error of my ways.
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - D B Campbell - 02-01-2012
Quote:Does anything need discussing?!I've never known you to shirk a discussion, Doctor Bishop. :wink:
Re: Tombstones - Vindex - 02-01-2012
Sorry - that was me trying to put the original purpose of Mike's inclusion of that particular tombstone back on track as I managed to hijack it with tunic/paenula/curtains.
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 02-01-2012
Quote:Sorry - that was me trying to put the original purpose of Mike's inclusion of that particular tombstone back on track as I managed to hijack it with tunic/paenula/curtains.Don't worry, it wasn't hijacked, it was a question worth asking and we got there eventually.
Quote:I've never known you to shirk a discussion, Doctor Bishop.Is the pot questioning the kettle's cleanliness?! :grin:
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Vindex - 02-01-2012
Seconds out....(I'll hold the coats).
Re: Tombstones - D B Campbell - 02-01-2012
Quote:Is the pot questioning the kettle's cleanliness?! :grin:Not at all. I know that we're both squeaky clean.
mile: [attachment=2771]Roman_Camp-kettle.jpg[/attachment]
Re: Tombstones - PhilusEstilius - 02-01-2012
I think we can forget the beltplates lads for we now have a funerary urn to go with our tombstones.
Re: Tombstones - D B Campbell - 02-01-2012
Quote:we now have a funerary urn to go with our tombstones.Er, excuse me. That's a shiny "kettle" for Mike, to match my black (Antonine) "pot" :wink:
[attachment=2781]BarHill_BB2.jpg[/attachment]
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 02-01-2012
Meanwhile, back at the subject, here's one for hippomaniacs: the once colourful Silius, everybody's favourite Totenmahl.
![[Image: 6801883957_0b434e7cca_m.jpg]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6801883957_0b434e7cca_m.jpg)
![[Image: 6801879221_aedc7a648f_m.jpg]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6801879221_aedc7a648f_m.jpg)
You can read more about Silius here (in German, but Chrome/Chromium will translate for you).
Just as the infantry tombstones led to my 'apron' article, the cavalry ones informed my earlier cavalry equipment paper.
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Vindex - 02-02-2012
Proof that either nothing in this world is new or, as I prefer it, the Romans really did know what they were doing with their harness and it was certainly not just decorative but functional (but coincidently a convenient piece of equipment to decorate and make a nice display of their horse which all cavalrymen like :wink: ).
The attached photograph shows the "in" thing in eventing; the five point breast plate to prevent the saddle slipping.
Silius' horse's example has two straps coming down from the saddle by the front horn. They join into one single strap across the horse's chest and, one presummes, would join the saddle on the other side in the same way (four points of contact). What cannot be seen is if the strap across the horse's chest is also secured by another strap which goes between the horse's legs and attaches to the girth. Not essential, but strongly advisable when riding at pace. This would give five points of contact/balance with the saddle.
Other tombstones show one strap joining by the horn, the second joining lower down the saddle, sometimes attached to the girth (as shown in the modern, attached picture).
So why am I boring you with this? In comparing the ancient and modern pieces of equipment one must bear in mind the point of balance of the rider. The modern rider, of course, has stirrups and can stand out of the saddle to aid the horse's movement at pace or, even better, lean out to either side by quite some distance if required. Our ancient riders did not have that additional piece of equipment (ie the stirrup) but could be just as secure in their seat and lean and bend out of the saddle confidently, knowing the saddle was held in place.
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 02-02-2012
Quote:What cannot be seen is if the strap across the horse's chest is also secured by another strap which goes between the horse's legs and attaches to the girth. Not essential, but strongly advisable when riding at pace. This would give five points of contact/balance with the saddle.Common on 1st-century harness, as you'll see from subsequent tombstones.
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Vindex - 02-02-2012
There are certainly variations on a theme as you infer but to be honest I made the point more because a) you can't actually see the strap and b) I don't like seeing re-enactors without the fifth "balance" strap as it is a safety issue!
You could also argue the case that the strap is not shown on later tombstones as it may relate to the terrain the cavalry were operating on...or just becasue the stone mason forgot :wink:
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 02-03-2012
Here's one for devotees of shield size and horizontal shield grip discussions. Is that shield supposed to be curved or could the sculptor just not do flat shields? ;-) The shafted weapon is missing although there is a ghost of its point on the spandrel, but not enough to tell if it was a pilum or a spear.
![[Image: 6807489783_b02fd856f9_m.jpg]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6807489783_b02fd856f9_m.jpg)
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Graham Sumner - 02-03-2012
And again how do you interpret what is around the neck?
It does not appear to be a scarf or even a tunic but one could see it as the padding of a subarmalis. In which case, is the smooth garment on top supposed to be mail that was depicted in paint, or a leather cover worn over the mail, oh dear!
Is the shield curved simply because it fits into a curved alcove, poor perspective or was it really meant to depict a curved shield. :-?
Graham.
Re: Tombstones - Vindex - 02-04-2012
Without wishing to sound like a creep, these are a particularly good set of photographs; thank you.
(And I would say curved shield because he's in an alcove :wink: )