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+--- Thread: Tombstones (/showthread.php?tid=20034)
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 01-22-2012
Quote:I have just been into the data base and looked at the tombstone of Firmus at Bonn, so I can now see the point you are making. (or two points)No problem. As I said, you have to see the things in the round to get all the detail. Firmus is one of my favourites and I think I may add him to Flickr next.
In fact there should be two points here however the top ends of the spears are missing on this tombstone.
Very interesting and sorry Byron changed my mind.
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-23-2012
Sorry too, I added the question about the spear after I had posted the
'What do you see here' about the boss! Thanks Brian, I thought it might be!
Yes you are right Mike, looking at photos is not great, especially without
my glasses on! Apologies! :mrgreen:
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 01-23-2012
Quote:Firmus is one of my favourites and I think I may add him to Flickr next.And lo, he is there.
![[Image: 6746695001_1a126d11ff_m.jpg]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6746695001_1a126d11ff_m.jpg)
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - M. Demetrius - 01-23-2012
That's not the most common pugio hilt, then, is it? Do the pugio makers realize that one exists? :roll:
Re: Tombstones - PhilusEstilius - 01-23-2012
Mike.
This is where I must go off topic to say that the two spear arrangement does creat an interesting aspect to military fighting tactics, for just what did these soldiers do with these spears while holding a shield.??
In fact the shape of the spear blades makes one wonder if all spears were made for theowing.
Anyway back to tombstones
Re: Tombstones - PhilusEstilius - 01-23-2012
David.
Where indeed I am a Pugio maker and not wanting to throw the whole subject totally off topic, I shall simply blame Mick Bishop and the Sculptor for this one.
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 01-23-2012
Quote:I shall simply blame Mick Bishop and the Sculptor for this one.Who is this mysterious character? Sounds like a wrong 'un to me ;-)
David, you cannot necessarily take these Rhineland tombstones as photographically accurate, more like good impressions of the equipment. Compare belt plates, dagger scabbards etc etc as depicted with genuine archaeological artefacts and you will see that they are inevitably stylised (to a greater or lesser degree), even the best pieces like Annaius Daverzus. We don't know if they were sculpted 'from life' ('...say cheese...'), although that would be a little morbid, even for the Romans, or whether the craftsman is an ex-soldier and familiar with equipment, or just chips away as soldiers walk past and captures what (he thinks) he sees. Enough unknown unknowns to have Mr Rumsfeld in a lather, I suspect.
As for dagger handles, there is a blade in the Museum of London with a bone handle of circular section, so always best to expect the unexpected, I feel.
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - PhilusEstilius - 01-23-2012
Dear Mr Bishop.
It would appear that I keep missing out with a letter e, I have so many friends with the name of Michael it's hard for me to remember them all.
Re: Tombstones - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-23-2012
There I was thinking you were referring to Mikes dodgy Irish cousin!
Re: Tombstones - PhilusEstilius - 01-23-2012
Now would that be the Irish Bishop your meaning.??
Re: Tombstones - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-23-2012
:-P
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 01-25-2012
Avoiding any Irish stereotypes, here's an unidentified legionary who's not in the imagebase, so I assume he's also not on display. I bumped into him as I worked my way through the Magazin at Bonn. He is not one of the finest products of the Rhineland workshops (the sculptor comes badly unstuck with the offset sword hilt, for instance), but he is sort of cute. And before anybody questions whether he really has a barbed pilum head, it's there, trust me ;-)
![[Image: 6758171969_1087081beb_m.jpg]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6758171969_1087081beb_m.jpg)
Mike Bishop
Re: Tombstones - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-25-2012
Is that a strap across his left side, or is he holding his cloak open
With his left hand?
If a strap, what would it be holding up?
Re: Tombstones - M. Demetrius - 01-25-2012
As Mike Bishop points out, it's hard to know from a single 2-D picture, but it looks like the strap of a bag or capsa to me, that object being partly visible on the soldier's left side.
Re: Tombstones - mcbishop - 01-25-2012
Quote:As Mike Bishop points out, it's hard to know from a single 2-D picture, but it looks like the strap of a bag or capsa to me, that object being partly visible on the soldier's left side.And here's me thinking none of you would see the pilum tip and instead you lot are making stuff up! No strap was obvious when I examined him (it's just the edge of his cape) and the only thing by his hand is the dagger (which is partly obscured) and a bunch of cape. Definitely no capsa (however you define that).
Mike Bishop