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+---- Thread: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars (/showthread.php?tid=19599)
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Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - M. Caecilius - 10-01-2011
Dear all,
I was wondering whether anyone knows a good (but affordable) equipment for the mid-republic (say, the later stages of the Second Punic War down to the Numentine War). I'l leave the hamata aside for now, due to budget restraints, but hope to invest into one at a later date.
1) I've just ordered a DSC Montefortino with feather crest at Armamentaria, and am looking forward to it arriving, but have had little luck with other equipment so far.
2) Scutum: I've got a Depeeka AH3877 Republican Scutum which seems to approach the real thing (it does seem to conform to Polybius' dimensions), although I've seen a similar shield by DSC at Armamentaria, and would be interested in a comparison. If the AH3877 is reasonably acceptable, I was wondering what it would take for someone with no experience to add metal borders, as described by Polybius, to the upper and lower rims.
3) Swords: I've found two possibilities online, the first being Depeeka's AH4228 (e.g. at Armae http://www.armae.com/antiquite/11antiquitecadre.htm) presented briefly elsewhere on this board as Caesarian, so too late, assuming there was no major stagnation between the two periods. The problem is the same with the other republican gladii I could find, Depeeka's AH4215 (e.g. at http://www.history-revisited.de/detail/id/752/name/republikanisches-gladius-hispaniensis,-typ-delos a), also discussed before (http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?func=view&catid=41&id=118857&limit=20&start=40).
4) Pilum: AH3526N seems to be the only one without a ball-weight I can find. Were these used during the time period under consideration? I've read somewhere that the earlier pila did not have pyramid heads, but I might be wrong here.
5) Pugio: I keep reading that the pugiones came in fashion by the late Republic and early Augustan period. Would this mean that most men would not have worn pugiones at, say, Pydna - or simply that we lack the evidence that they did and how these looked?
Many thanks for the answers, and to all other people who want as questions or provided information about the reenactment of the mid-Republican period, please tell!
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-03-2011
Hi!
I'm also interested in making a mid republican impression, from the times of the second punic wars. There are other options from the Spanish store Armillum (whose owner and artisan is involved in a SPW reenactment group):
- Scutum: http://www.armillum.com/product.php?id_product=421 Made by him, I think it's a lot better than the Deepeka one.
- Gladius: made for Armillum by DSC http://www.armillum.com/product.php?id_product=282 (on how DSC made the sword with his advise: http://www.mambri.com/CosasArmillum/hispaniensis.html ).
I haven't bought anything yet, but i'm considering all the options. How is the DSC Montefortino? It looks really good, but I've read is too big, like the first Deepeka Montefortinos.
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-03-2011
In fact, this is the forum of the SPW Spanish reenactment group i've just said. If you can read Spanish (or use google translate
) you can find some useful information. There are people with a lot of knowledge about these period involved there.http://sgp.foros.ws/index.php?sid=1620884016aea3cc3463bb31b8a88022
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - M. Caecilius - 10-04-2011
Thanks, Tiberius Aemilius, for those links.
The DSC Gladius Hispanensis in particular seems quite interesting. I wonder what other people think about it, but so far, but it argues well for its authenticity. I like the grip, but am wondering whether the early republican gladii were wasp-waisted. I'd be very glad to hear other people's opinions on this.
I'll check out the SGP Forums, but though I can read Spanish, I can't really write it, so asking questions would be - no pun intended - out of the question.
As for the Montefortino, I cannot say anything yet. I've ordered it just recently. Armamentaria promises to ship within 7 working days; these have not yet been fully completed. I'll post some comments in the threat I started about the Montefortino soon as I get some experience with it.
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - damianlz - 10-04-2011
I really like your choices! Please let me know how the montefortino goes, I am lloking at picking one up and would really like to know if its comfortable, worth the price etc
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-04-2011
Quote:The DSC Gladius Hispanensis in particular seems quite interesting. I wonder what other people think about it, but so far, but it argues well for its authenticity. I like the grip, but am wondering whether the early republican gladii were wasp-waisted. I'd be very glad to hear other people's opinions on this.Here you can find a discussion about how waspy could a gliadius hispaniensis be:
http://romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?func=view&catid=17&id=292688#292849
It is defined as having "straight edges", but it can also be quite waspy. Is what i've concluded for the moment.
Here, the artisan of Armillum (nick
enior) discusses why he chose that shape for the blade:http://romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?func=view&catid=17&id=292688#292849
I hope this is useful.
I'm waiting for info about the Montefortino! If it's good, i'll get one!
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - caiusbeerquitius - 10-04-2011
Here´s a Numantine pilum blade by AER:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.494108339667.272087.265901804667&type=1
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - M. Caecilius - 10-04-2011
[quote][quote="M. Caecilius" post=297136]I hope this is useful.[/quote]
This is very useful. Thanks so much for this reply. Unfortunately, I could not find the discussion by Senior of Armillum, as the link is the same as the first one.
I'm also currently printing the Quesada article you linked to in the discussion about the shape of Gladii - much appreciated, too! Also, the article about Montefortinos seems promising.
[quote]I'm waiting for info about the Montefortino! If it's good, i'll get one![/quote]
I'll keep you posted.
[quote]Here´s a Numantine pilum blade by AER:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.494108339667.272087.265901804667&type=1[/quote]
Many thanks. Do you have any other information - I have to admit that I have not yet made it into the 21st century, and do not have a facebook account...
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - Aemilianus - 10-04-2011
Hello,
I have created a group specialised on this period. You can find equipment informations here:
http://www.roman-reenactor.com/roman%20artifacts%20reconstructions.html
If you have questions feel free to ask.
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - M. Caecilius - 10-05-2011
Thanks for the link, Aemilianus. That looks like a very interesting group!
I see from the contact information that you yourself are based in Konz; do you have any shows nearby? I'm from Luxembourg, so essentially just next door, and would be very interested in the opportunity to seeing you in action!
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - Aemilianus - 10-05-2011
Hello,
As you can see we are going to Villa Borg every year, and that is the clothest place, but you will have to wait for next July for it sorry. Next events are planned in the South of France. But if you are interested I got plenty of things here in my house that is only 15 minutes from the Luxembourg border and that I could show you. We are also working on two new types of pilums at present that I hope will be ready for next season, plus plenty of other things.
Greetings
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-05-2011
Hi Aemilianus! Your web is great, i've been digging in it several times. I have some doubts that i will take the opportunity to ask. The first:
- Shoes: why Perones? Is there any evidence of perones being used in a military context in the II c. BC.?
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-05-2011
Quote:tiberius aemilius naso post=297178 Wrote:[quote="M. Caecilius" post=297136]I hope this is useful.
Unfortunately, I could not find the discussion by Senior of Armillum, as the link is the same as the first one.
Sorry!
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Armamento%2Bind%25C3%25ADgena%2By%2Bromano%2Brepublicano%2Ben%2BIberia%2522%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1545%26bih%3D813%26prmd%3Divnsob&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=es&u=http://legioviiii.foros.ws/t1932/gladius-hispaniensis/
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - M. Caecilius - 10-05-2011
Thanks, Eduardo. Do you know how narrow the waist gets on this sword in relation to imaginary, straight lines (not a mathematician, so no idea what the term would be here; I hope I make myself understood despite my lack of vocabulary in this subject)? The ones illustrated in the thread you linked to do seem wasp-waisted, as indicated by Senior, but not quite as heavily.
Jean-Luc, I'd really appreciate meeting you next time at the Villa Borg. For the moment, I'm rather busy with life here (probationary period at work, exams coming up, etc), but I'll keep your very kind offer in mind.
Re: Equipment of the Macedonian to Numantine Wars - tiberius aemilius naso - 10-05-2011
Quote:Do you know how narrow the waist gets on this sword in relation to imaginary, straight lines
I understand you perfectly... and i've had the same doubt! I am not sure if it's quite too waspy. But it looks close to the shape of the Osuna gladius... I don't know.