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+--- Thread: Trident from Kempten? (/showthread.php?tid=19582)
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Trident from Kempten? - caiusbeerquitius - 09-27-2011
Found this in the Musem in Kempten / Cambodunum. Looks very similar to the London trident, doesn´t it? But seems to have had a spear-like tip instead of the bodkin on the London sample. Or is it something else?
[attachment=1783]IMG_0577.jpg[/attachment]
Re: Trident from Kempten? - john roberts - 09-27-2011
Looks like it might be a boar spear.
Re: Trident from Kempten? - caiusbeerquitius - 10-07-2011
It is almost exacty the same size as the London trident, which seems to me to be a bit small for a boar spear.... hmmm....
London trident:
![[Image: DSC00019.jpg]](http://1.1.1.6/bmi/web.me.com/christian.koepfer/AER/Gladiator_Gear_files/DSC00019.jpg)
Re: Trident from Kempten? - garrelt - 10-07-2011
Bodkin or leaf shape is the smiths choice I think.
Also looks like a trident to me.
Nice one.
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Olaf - 10-08-2011
Wow, great find.
It realy does looks a lot like the London trident.
Though the secondary backward hooks are missing, the surviving smaller point is worked a lot more rectangular than in the London example, so this one resembles a trident even more then the oone from London.
Of course the London trident can not be linked to Gladiator combat with certainty, and we do not find these special form of trident in iconography.
Do we have information concerning find spot and dating of this piece?
Re: Trident from Kempten? - caiusbeerquitius - 10-09-2011
Olaf: No, publication is lent out. Have to wait a few weeks.
Here, from Worms:
![[Image: signa_signa04.jpg]](http://www.roma-victrix.com/signa/img/signa_signa04.jpg)
Found onROMA VICTRIX
There said to be part of a standard. Provenance, anyone?
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Medusa Gladiatrix - 10-09-2011
Concerning the London trident, I have the comment from a professional fisherman that the London trident definitely cannot be used for fishing. Were tridents used for beast hunting? I always thought they used spears only.
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Olaf - 10-10-2011
Nice another one of these.
I do not see how the swept back secondary wings would be usefull in hunting.
My first alternative idea about the London trident would have been that it was part of a fancy statue, but since we do have three similar pieces now...
Re: Trident from Kempten? - richard robinson - 10-10-2011
That last photo is making me think mini spit- catch your animal and have something to cook it on! The second tines maybe hand protection- for when u r really close to the boar and it doesnt know its dead yet????
Though of course it could be a gladiatorial weapon also...
regards
Richard
Re: Trident from Kempten? - M. Demetrius - 10-10-2011
Or it could be symbolic, like the topper of a navy/marine standard. I'm making a standard for our Marine unit that has a top that's a small trident instead of a spear point. These were not typically used as weapons, just ornaments with a military theme, right?
Re: Trident from Kempten? - jho - 10-10-2011
Quote:Found on ROMA VICTRIX There said to be part of a standard. Provenance, anyone?
According to Weckerlin, Die römische Abteilung des Paulus-Museums der Stadt Worms, 1885 p. 124, 144, pl. IV ill. 5 this was found in the Rhine a Mainz.
It is identified by the author as part of a signum apparently because it was associated by the author with what looks like a typical dolabra sheath but is identified by the author as the metal binding for the name plate of a signum. I believe this object was also included in one of the AuhV volumes but I have not checked.
In spite of the clearly wrong association with the dolabra sheath, the identification could still be correct: If I recollect correctly, vexilla are sometimes shown as hung from the pole by a simple piece of rope. The outer extensions of the "trident" could conceivably have served to catch such a rope holding a vexillum.
I would assume that Töpfer deals with this find in his "Signa Militaria" but I do not have access to it.
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Olaf - 03-26-2012
Here is a trident head from Winchester.
Broadly simmilar, though sadly found in a very bad condition.
Looks more like a full trident though:
http://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/401866
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Draconis - 03-26-2012
The Worms trident is so elegant... is there a picture of the London trident anywhere to compare? Looking at the Worms trident as the only complets one shown I'm wondering about some possible uses of the parts. for one, wondering if the trident bits on left and right can be used as a weapon catcher to hook and push aside a weapon as a spear for instance to open a spot for a thrust? Or maybe catch the reins of a horseman. The two spikey bits behind the trident, I'm thiking were I using it, in the event of an overthrust leaving your trident over the enemiy's shoulder, pull back sharply and catch him on the back of the neck, tearing through carotid artery and thoroughly ruining his post battle party plans.
Re: Trident from Kempten? - Draconis - 03-26-2012
another thought... use the hooky bits to hook the edge of a shield and pulling it back and out of position then thrust to the body
Re: Trident from Kempten? - jho - 03-26-2012
Töpfer has five or six finds of this type listed in his "Signa Militaria".
He identifies them as tips of Roman signa/vexilla which appears plausible to me. The find from Winchester posted above looks much more like a "real" trident.