Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Ancient Combat Sports (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief (/showthread.php?tid=19565)

Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Olaf - 09-24-2011 I just found these beautifull pictures from the Burdur Museum on Flickr: High resolution and a few more pictures can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40060535@N05/galleries/72157627616255617/ Sadly there is no picture of the complete relief (or reliefs?) and also no information on the dating of the finds. From the helmets and the ring mail manicae without shoulder guard of the Retiarii I would cosider these 2nd to 3rd century, however. Edit: I found another picture showing the third scene of the Provocator combat: Though it can not be seen clearly, the defeated Provocator is shown without an helmet but seems to be wearing some kind of padded protection covering his skull and even down to the chin. Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Gashford - 10-07-2011 That's an excellent spot on the defeated gladiator, he clearly seems to have some sort of padded head gear on under there, although not to the same scale, it instantly reminds me of the medieval great helm padding here: Just a shame that the others don't seem to as well, but a superb spot for my money on the one! Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Olaf - 10-08-2011 Yes that is the kind of padding I had thought of also, when I found that picture. The bareheaded Secutor on this Relief is in a victory pose so the artist probably wanted to show his face and head in detail. One of the Provocatores fighting on the Kos Mosaic shown in this forum also seems to wear a similar kind of helmet padding: http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?func=view&catid=12&id=296005 And on another mosaic of two Eques from Madrid, we see the defeated Eques with strange colored lines covering the side of his head: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40060535@N05/galleries/72157622918615776/#photo_4391071174 The Murmillo from the Kourion Mosaic also seems to be wearing something under his helmet, reaching down to the base of the neck. http://www.flickr.com/photos/40060535@N05/galleries/72157622982726247 Lastly there is a Thraex statuette in the Musée Rolin, Autun that is missing a helmet, which was probably separate. http://www.flickr.com/photos/40060535@N05/galleries/72157622918629772/#photo_3999321746 Sadly I do not have a view from the front, but the detail on the back of the head does hint at a padded hood. Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Statius - 10-12-2011 Very interesting observations. One thing I again noticed is how short the Gladius's of the Provocators are, they are little more than Pugio length and since everything else in the relief is in proportion (more of less) can one assume that this was the actual length of the weapon with which the Provocators fought. If so one can imagine that a fight between two heavily encumbered gladiators would be a very up close and personal affair more akin to a wrestling match with daggers as they sought to get in a telling blow either over or around the scutum. Head shots would be rendered somewhat redundant by the heavy helemts and breastplates. Anyone else got any opinions? Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Olaf - 10-13-2011 You sum it up pretty good. The Gladiatorial sword were shortened during the Augustan reforms, and in the Pompeji barraks only a single blade of 30cm length and two blades of 20cm, each with grips of about 10cm have been found. Before that we see Mainz type Gladii in use, but also visorless helmets so the fights would have been a lot more dangerous in the beginning. From the 2nd to 3rd century the helmets neck and should guard started to extend down to just above the shoulders, so it became even more difficult to hit the adversary. As you from the Relief above quite close grappling seems to have often decided a bout. Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - john roberts - 10-13-2011 Many other reliefs from the eastern half of the Empire show the same thing - the fighters abandon their shields and finish with what amounts to a knife fight. You don't see this much in the west. Maybe the rules were different there and the gladiator was forbidden to abandon his shield (this may have been a sign of surrender.) Re: Burdur Museum Kibyra Gladiator Relief - Strix - 10-15-2011 Fabulous detail! It's like a comic strip. (Hallo Olaf! :-D *waves*) BTW, Ive done a bit of digging about the net; according to this website the excavation where those reliefs seem to have been found has been written up in this publication, H. Ali Ekinci, Şükrü Özüdoğru, E. Dökü and Gökhan Tiryaki, "Excavations at Kibyra in 2006", ANMED (Anadolu Akdenizi Arkeoloji Haberleri) 5 (2007), 22-8 Not sure how you'd get hold of that though....