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+--- Thread: Praetorian at villa albani? (/showthread.php?tid=19406)
Praetorian at villa albani? - richsc - 08-25-2011
This photo described as a praetorian with what looks like segmentata and a Corinthian helmet was posted over on FB. Itt may have been covered here before, but I could not find the thread. What do we know about it?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2048046839186&set=a.1568526051466.2072343.1184882475&type=1
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Titus Marius Secundus - 08-25-2011
Well I don't have "Thee" addictive social website that uses and sells personal information :x ... so I can't see the picture, maybe if you can copy the image, you might get a better answer :mrgreen:
hehe
Sam
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - jvrjenivs - 08-25-2011
Quote:Well I don't have "Thee" addictive social website that uses and sells personal information :x ... so I can't see the picture, maybe if you can copy the image, you might get a better answer :mrgreen:
hehe
Sam
Here you go:
![[Image: pretorianVillaAlbani.jpg]](http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb2/jvrjenivs/pretorianVillaAlbani.jpg)
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Titus Marius Secundus - 08-25-2011
wow thanks a lot!!! That's amazing :-) I have seen this style seg before many times and have only seen it once in a reproduction....so...are we doing it all wrong? :-P
To be honest, I can't imagine this combination very well, even with it in front of me :-?
Looks interesting and detailed, but maybe we're missing a style of segmentata somewhere in history? With no examples found, cause this looks like without buckles etc, I don't know anything about the sculpture itself and or it's location, sorry.
( P.S I didn't mean to sound mean, sorry, I just don't like Face Book and how it's bad sides to it are taking over the minds and influence of so many.( especially children) An example, one man with too much power is never a good thing. FaceBook is an ever growing site with a capability to do damage) my bad experience was becoming addicted to Texas Hold'Em
I would be so tired I'd have to sleep during the day 
ad: ...for most people it's posting overly personal info, and sexting with children. My friends usually talk about who's posing what :wink: parents set me straight :roll: Regards,
Sam
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - mcbishop - 08-26-2011
Quote:maybe we're missing a style of segmentata somewhere in history? With no examples found, cause this looks like without buckles etc, I don't know anything about the sculpture itself and or it's location, sorry.You can see a whole slew of these artistically stylised segmentata representations in Lorica Segmentata 1. They signify nothing, other than the ability of sculptors to stylise. Reproduction cuirasses made from such images are, I'm afraid, no better than fantasy armour.
Mike Bishop
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Titus Marius Secundus - 08-26-2011
I see. thanks. I was just thinking because so many sculptures seem to sculpt the same type of seg. Like on Trajan's column, it has the same design. I know we can't rely on the column, but maybe give it credit in this situation? ... of course what we find in excavations is much different than to what we see sculpted, just not that simple is it :evil:
Sam
Anyone got better answer to the first original question?
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - mcbishop - 08-26-2011
Quote:I see. thanks. I was just thinking because so many sculptures seem to sculpt the same type of seg. Like on Trajan's column, it has the same design. I know we can't rely on the column, but maybe give it credit in this situation? ... of course what we find in excavations is much different than to what we see sculpted, just not that simple is itOn the contrary, it is very simple: what is excavated is what it looked like. Anything else is the product of a fevered metropolitan sculptor's imagination ;-) Truth is the Column was a major influence on contemporary sculptors, just as it was on later Renaissance works. The Column provides an impression of what segmentata looked like in the same way that Rory Bremner provides an impression of what David Cameron looks and sounds like... the human brain detects the similarities but we're not about to let Mr Bremner run the UK (perhaps we should!).
Mike Bishop
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Titus Marius Secundus - 08-26-2011
DAMN RIGHT lmao jk :-P :-P I don't know, the best thing he's done is punish those rioters...
I think the Legions should have restored order in the good o'll fashioned way
Sam
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Gaius Colletti - 08-26-2011
My God, I cannot believe ancient sculptors consistently created these horrible "fantasy segmentata". Was it really so hard to just bring in an example? Or at the very least describe what they looked like?
On another note, very interesting to see a Corinthian helm on a segmentata. Do we have any further evidence to support that this soldier is a Praetorian?
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Dany Boy - 08-26-2011
[attachment=1533]198985_197826646924865_100000925932559_479886_5952290_n.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1534]200193_197826630258200_100000925932559_479885_1916443_n.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1535]198472_197826663591530_100000925932559_479887_7744456_n.jpg[/attachment]
Thanks a lot for starting this interesting subject here.
First my acknowledgement to Marco Reist the one how was the first one sharing this interesting photo.
I will really appreciate if someone shares a link where this Villa Albani is and if it’s possible the history period?
It was my bother the one how turn my attention over this unusual for us combination between early Hellenic stile helmet and Lorica-Segmentat.
The front part of this helmet looks like Greek Corinthian, but at the same time the profile of this fresco sowed how it fits like the classical Elmo Apulo Corinzio so it’s hard to say for certain is this Greek or Italian helmet!
Looking at the profile size of (calotte) is not big enough for Greek Corinthian but the front part bears the classical shapes of the calotte and almond eyes.
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - caiusbeerquitius - 08-26-2011
Is it possible we see Mars here?
(Of course this is evidence that the Romans wore (Apulo-) Corinthian helmets at least up to the time to which this sculpture is dated...
My guess is later second century)As a side-note: Also interesting: The belt plates do not go all around the belt.
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-26-2011
The empty spot on the belt is on the right place for the Pugio.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Dany Boy - 08-29-2011
[attachment=1556]Earlyloricasegmentata.jpg[/attachment]
Another one figure of Roman legionary could be Praetorian wearing sketchily shaped Segmentata and Hellenic stile of helmet.
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Crispianus - 08-29-2011
Greetings, Its Called Artistic License :wink: , sure some of it could be based on real items but these images conjure up more questions then they do answers, for example... if this figure represents Mars or any Ancient Mythological Hero or God why put him in an ordinary set of armour? surely something grander, greater, stranger or Ancient would be better, but not so alien thats its not recognisable to the general public...
And then theres also Artistic Convention "Brittania" or "Victory" I believe would be an example of this...
Some of it Could Certainly be Real the Helmet is recognisable but this doesnt mean its proof it was used, Proof would be finding an example of such a helmet in an Archaeological military Context, after all many sculptural accesories were metal objects..
Did Wealthy Romans Collect Ancient Artifacts? there were many who were interested in ancient times after all...
Just My thoughts not written in stone....Ivor
Re: Praetorian at villa albani? - Gaius Colletti - 08-30-2011
I agree with Ivor, that if it was a mythological god of some sort, he would not be wearing segmentata. LS which is cool to us, was apparently a lower ranking armor, enough that we only have reliefs of Centurions wearing chainmail and squamata. We see Roman Emperors wearing a muscle cuirass, (the Augustus of Prima Porta stands comes to mind), and since the Roman Emperors were basically living gods on Earth, I would expect that more important gods would wear nothing less