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+--- Thread: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? (/showthread.php?tid=18884)
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Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Colletti - 05-22-2011
I recently bought my first Roman Pompeii Gladius made from mild steel and with a full tang, and I've been looking to get it sharpened (its blunt but the seller has assured me it can be sharpened, and will keep a fine edge). I was looking on ways to sharpen swords and came across this page from Sword Buyer's Guide: http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sharpening-swords.html
As well as this thread on a Sword Forum: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=swordcustom&action=display&thread=1768
Overall the response to accusharp seems to be positive in the sword community, as long as its not being used on very high end swords (which my sword isn't). I don't mind a secondary bevel on the sword, especially since it can be rubbed away with a little sandpaper. Has anyone here used the accusharp or have an opinion about them? Thanks
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Crispvs - 05-25-2011
Why would you want to sharpen it? Do you intend to hurt someone with it? :wink:
Crispvs
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Yurko - 05-25-2011
Here, here. I support Crispvs' opinion.
As a re-enactor/living historian, what would be the point? I would venture leaving as is to be inherently safer and lessen the chance of an accidental cut.
Unless of course you wished to practice anger management against melons perhaps?
IMHO....
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Colletti - 05-25-2011
I understand that in the reenacting community there can sometimes be a stigma about having a sharpened "live sword". Though I am going to put off sharpening it, I would like to sharpen it eventually.
I ask "Why not?" It may be that the generally reenacting community only wants to use swords for reenactment purposes, which is fine, but I would like to have a functional blade as a collector. Surely this is no different than someone who has or collects guns.
I don't need you to agree with my reasoning, only give me advice if you have some. Thanks
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Legionary25 - 05-25-2011
accusharp's work fine, I used one on my deepeeka pompeii and Ljublijanica sword. Just try to use a file afterwards to smooth over the secondary bevel. I also collect swords and think that it is important to have them sharp, as that is the way they were meant to be and you tend to have a lot more respect for the weapon itself that way.
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 05-26-2011
You can order better quality correctly sharpened swords for Del Tin and Albion. Both through KoA, or Albion direct. Sharpening is an art and depends on the steel. Both Del Tin and Albion have expierience and professional sword makers so you get the correct edge. Keep your orginal gladius as is. Get a pre-sharpened one that fits the same scabard. Take your dull bladed one to events. Everyone will be happy.
If you want to sharpen your dull edged one, check out a place that carries quality medium to fine grain metal files. There are also low end sharpening "sets" supposed to be for Japanese swords, but the are not that high quality, and unfit for a Nihonto. They would be perfect for anything else except high quality westen style swords. Read some internet articals on sharpening techniques. If you get a kit with stones, the basic Japanese tecnique would be the best. Real Japanese Nihonto should never be touched except by a professional and they charge around $200 by the inch as a rule.
I have sharpened a few swords using traditional methods and it is an interesting learning expierience for any reenactor. You can easily shift the balance and total weight with a lot of elbow grease. Modern reconstructions seem very blade heavy in some brands and sword types. This is very noticable on modern made spatha. You get a feel for the steel as well as how personal a sword is, and how expierience counts. I am sure the Roman army, had somebody around every unit, no matter how small, you took yours to. There is mention of sword making duties in existant records. Those specialist are all more important when you look at the breakdown of different types of steels that can be used in a single sword when you look at cross sections. There are many types. Anything pattern welded requires someone knowlegable. Write it off to expieremental archaeology.
Nothing wrong with having a sharp sword if you want one. I keep a modern wakishasi next to my bed. In some places you need self-defence. That is just a fact of Geography. I live in a border state and we have very high crime rate. I live in a good neighborhood, but gangs who tend to do resedential buglaries and can be very violent, and can be found in every comunity in the US. That is a fact of life. I do not like it, but I can't change that. As a former police officer I do not want to have to use a firearm. That is a personal choice, not a recomendation for any one else. States differ as to laws. Same with countries.
Ralph
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Medicus matt - 05-26-2011
If, as you say, the blade is mild steel then don't use an Accusharp. The Accusharp works by slicing metal off which each pass and I would expect that on a soft mild steel blade, it'd take off too much too quickly. If you want to sharpen it (and again, if it's mild steel which won't hold an edge then why bother?) then I'd use files, then emery paper and finish with a stone. It'll take longer but it won't sod your blade up.
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 05-26-2011
If you sharpen your Gladius you should be sure to never use it in any kind of battle display where the conditions might result in injury of others or yourself.
Sharpening your sword is not a clever thing to do as a re-enactor, even though it would be historically more accurate. Using power tools is even more ridiculous since that is totally inaccurate. Use polishing stones.
M.VIB.M,
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Colletti - 05-27-2011
An excellent point, having two Gladii one sharp and one dull. I was not aware that Mild Steel will not hold an edge, SOTW assured me it would keep a fine edge, and mild steel does have a considerable carbon content.
Since this is the only sword I have, I considered the accusharp since it is usually praised as a "Stupid-proof". I do not have any other swords to practice sharpening before I started on this one.
Marcus, the accusharp is a prepositioned with razors that you just run down the sword with your hands, not a power tool at all
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 05-27-2011
Steel that will hold an edge is brittle. The edges in historic swords are hardened or welded to a softer core that will not break easily. If a sword is homogenious steel like 1050 or something, it will work, but carbon steel still has to be hardened with some process. Some modern swords use a cyrogenic process.
I still recomend finding a cheap Chinese sword sharpening kit. They come in a wood box that also serves to hold the different grit stones. (use heavy gloves to avoid getting cut.) Maybe you can get one that will hold an edge or maybe not. I think most modern Roman style swords with blunt edges are cut from a stock billet, so the "quality" of the steel will depend on the stock it was cut from.
Polish also helps appearance. People with mirror like swords are taken more seriously that ones with dull ones. There are historic references to this. Several recorded instances of this have been taken to indicate the moral or quality of an opossing army. Polish can be done with oiled mico-fiber paper, which can be found up to 4000 grit. One method of polish is to get magnetite powder mixed with clove oil or chu oil. The oil is slightly asidic, so it helpes with the polish. I think olive oil is also. You use your fingers on the magnetite paste in a circular manner. You can get cut easily, though if your attention wanders. After the surface polish, clean it off and use light machine oil though, as vegitable oil will cause oxidation if left over a period of time. I do not know if the magnatite method was known to the Romans or not. It would probably be missed in the archaeological record if the purpose was not understood.
EDIT: Some dealers offer a sharpening service on Del Tin blades. I have no idea how they do it. This might be a gamble depending on who does it and how they do it. I believe you can specificaly order one from Del Tin to come sharp by them. It can take some months to get, but since they make them, they probably know to sharpen them. I do not know for sure having never seen one that came from them sharp. I have a Del Tin 900-1100ish AD sword that was sharpend by the dealer. The sword is of decent make and all, but the angles on the sharped part seem a bit wrong. I got this particular sword almost 20 years ago.
Ralph
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Magnus - 05-27-2011
Excellent advice here. As I mentioned too Matt, the japanese water stones are a good option. Lee Valley Tools offers some (I have one, it's great) or you can use the emmory paper (water proof sand paper).
Thing is, the sword came from India, so it's hard to tell just what kind of alloy or what the carbon content in it is. But that particular swords really isn't the one you want to put an edge on.
Ralph hit the mark...Albion or some of the custom weaponsmiths I mentioned are your best bets.
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 05-27-2011
Agree fully with the advice of our fellow members, use stones. Stones take off less than an accusharp and therefore the edge will remain stronger.
To polish any sword is a thing you should learn by starting on cheaper blades.
Stay well away of proper Japanese swords though, they only should be polished by Togishi (polishers) who have had years of training.
at the moment i am working on a Yari speartip, which is a modern one. Have not seen a hamon yet, but with my Jizuya and Hazuya stones that should come out if it has it at all. The stones you could buy for re-enactment swords do not have to be as expensive as a proper Japanese polishing kit since that will set you back about 5-600 US$.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 05-27-2011
Having a sharpened sword I think would help wit the overall reenactment presentation!
While I am sure this will cause a storm of disagreement, I notice all too ofter in photos, people holding the gladius with fingers draped over the guard onto the blade, and other bad habits. It would force the user to show the respect due to the weapons they are presenting to the public, and teach them to use them correctly, perhaps?
Yes, sharpened swords are dangerous, and should not be used in actual comabt displays, but the presentation and also for cutting of opposing melons, it makes the display a touch better.
:grin:
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - Robert - 06-06-2011
There are two things to consider when wanting to sharpen a sword. One is the legal aspect, a blade with two cutting edges may violate local law. The second is, it is not just the edge that needs sharpening! Most replica swords are made with blunt edges, some VERY blunt. The blade has the right dimensions, but the cross section shows the entire sword is grossly overweight, as the rhombiod cross section achieved in a sharpened blade runs from the spine straight to edge. Roman knife blades are all triangular in cross section, no double bevel. Same goes for many Roman swords, except here there are two triangles joined at the spine. So when you sharpen such a blade, you need to take off a lot of extra material to create a correct cross section. While at it, you may as well create the distal taper also lacking in most Indian swords (really, these swords are crap in so many ways), bringing the balance back towards the hilt. So the process of sharpening may very well do a lot to improve your sword.
Then there are many kinds of sharp. There is ornamental sharp, this will not cut you, is about as sharp as a normal table knife for speading butter and cutting your bread. I would recommend that sharpness for any re-enactment sword, as this gives you a cross section closest to the original. You can run your hand over the blade without cutting yourself. For hacking melons, the sword need not be overly sharp, this is quite enough. Yes, I am stating I believe re-enactment weapons are way, way too blunt, detracting from the feel of the blade as a weapon.
Then there is sharp, like a good kitchen knife, which is getting dangerous. Running you hand over it will result in a good cut pronto. I do my knives that way, if someone wants them blunt, they can just give the cutting edge a few passes with a block of sandpaper.
The third variety is "touch and bleed", razor sharp, like a razor or scalpel. Not recommended unless set on doing serious harm, having a shave or operating on a patient.
Re: Using an \"Accusharp\" on a Gladius? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 06-06-2011
Very sound advice again !
Dont make the re-enactment blades too sharp indeed.
The third variety i like for my Nihon-To though...
KM