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+--- Thread: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project (/showthread.php?tid=18592)
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Cacaius - 03-29-2011
Salve
I LIKE IT
VERY MUCH !It would be nice to know:
- starting thickness of the sheet of metal
- final thickness for top of the bowl
- final weight of the helmet itself ..(with and without cheeks)
Thank you in advance for those details.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Marcus Velius Avitus - 03-31-2011
Matt,
That helm looks like a million bucks! Very nicely done. I have only done one raised helm and it took FOREVER! It wasn''t for a customer, so I just kept putting it away and coming back to it. Eventually I got it to where I wanted it. Making one that is a copy of an original is even harder. I say bravo. Looks great!:grin:
BTW, maybe I missed it, but what thickness of sheet metal did you start off with? It looks like maybe 16 guage?
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Dean Cunningham metalsmit - 04-08-2011
What thickness did you start with? Erik Thing in his anvil fire tutorial uses 10G which seems crazy even hot forged. Im just finishing up my T stake but have been raising small things with a ball stake and feel 16 G is pushing it I terms of arm fatigue and ease of raising. But with scale and final sanding 16G seems the most reasonable Gauge to start with to end up at an average of about 18G for the finished object. Though the process of raising does thicken the sides so to speak the top and occiput tends to be thinner from final shaping. And any dishing or sinking of course does stretch the metal a bit. Are you hot forging? Coal, charcoal, or gas? I use gas and an atmospheric forge burner.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Crispvs - 04-08-2011
I recall Celer telling me once that a number helmets that he had had a close look at were thicker on the front and crown and very thin at the back, showing that the smiths had worked the metal into the desired thicknesses for the different areas of the helmets prior to beginning to raise the helmet bowls themselves.
Crispvs
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Matt Lukes - 04-08-2011
That might be reading a little too much into it- as I mentioned just by the way I made it, I ended up with a thinner back than anywhere else and as a consequence of the raising process, the crown is left as thick as the starting sheet and the front where the metal is compressed most remains as thick or thicker than that. Interestinly, the sides are less-so, perhaps due to the way the blank is held during the process (the neckguard makes a handy 'handle' to do the front, but there's nothing but the other side to use for the sides so it's less easy).
The data I had for Roman iron helmets, which is minimal because for some reason archaeologists don't seem to recognize that armour thickness is a pretty significant feature and almost never report it, suggested around 1mm was reasonable, so I started with 16ga. because once forged (knowing final thicknesses would vary, some being less), and ground I knew I could expect at least 1mm thickness remaining in the thinnest areas. And to answer your question Dean, since I live in the 'burbs, it's propane for me
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Dean Cunningham metalsmit - 04-09-2011
I had a blacksmith friend who used coal and had a very, very tall chimney on his forge. he asked me over to help him decommission it because he started using his propane forge. About a month after I was over and he was cleaning his off white house to be painted and even with his tall stack his house had been discolored from the coal forge. He hadn't noticed until he began cleaning it. I also live in the burbs so I have to limit even my time on the anvil.
Nice work by the way. Inspires me to get my rear in gear and finish my stake.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Gaius Colletti - 04-19-2011
Matt, about how long did it take to work on that helmet, start to finish?
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Nieczar - 04-23-2011
it's very nice helmet indeed
...great work Matt ! ...I like when hand-forged stuff looks like hand-forged stuff :grin:
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Matt Lukes - 05-13-2011
My apologies for taking so long to reply to that question Matt- I've just moved for the first time in over 13 years and it's been an ordeal to say the least LOL Who knew going just 4km could be so tough...
Anyway since the helmet isn't finished I can't answer your question fully, but I can say the work on the one completed prognathid (cheekguard), took on the order of 5 or 6 hours (although since it was the first, that's probably on the long side), and the bowl thus far has probably taken about 40 hours- but again being a first, that's probably a touch long.
And thanks Nieczar- I agree 100%; little to me is less-realistic than perfectly flat, smooth and mirror shiny LOL The quickest examination of even the most costly medieval plate armour, which was surely made to higher standards than average soldier's kit 1500 years before, is never perfectly flat, straight or smooth- it's obviously hand-made and has what our modern eyes see as flaws, but since they're naturally associated with hand made stuff, they're truly not... the lack of them is the real flaw
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Marcus Julius - 05-25-2011
OK, raising a helmet from a single piece is one thing. The fact that you did it on a T-stake is absolutely amazing. I would have expected a ball or mushroom.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Doc - 05-25-2011
I agree that Matt's methods are excellent. That is why I continue to say that in my estimation, he is the best armorer. This is in no way a disrespect to others who also do fine work. It's just that when I see pictures of Matt's work with others side by side, I draw this conclusion.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Nurglitch - 07-06-2011
Quote:David,, There's a really interesting online step by step for raising metal here..
http://www.ageofarmour.com/education/raising.html
This tutorial seems to describe a process of raising shapes out of cold metal. Matt in the very first post mentions heated metal. Are both the approaches valid? Can you raise a helmet bowl without a forge?
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - jvrjenivs - 07-06-2011
Well, I would say you can certainly cold-forge iron to some extend, but you would also certainly need to anneal it and it would take much more force and time to do compare to hot-forging.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - garrelt - 07-06-2011
Another method, forced turning, is using a lathe for a making a bowl.
The method was know because a lot of copper alloy umbos,pots and pans show spun marks.
How about helmets, any spun marks on them?
Indeed a very nice made helmet.
Re: One-Piece Raised Roman Helmet Project - Doc - 07-06-2011
From what is known, it appears that only copper alloy items were spun like some of the Coolus or Montefortino helmets, umbos etc. There is no evidence for spun iron objects especially helmets AFAIK.