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+--- Thread: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) (/showthread.php?tid=18481)
Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - marcus ulpius quadratus - 03-05-2011
Salve Omnes,
As a citizen of Britannia provincia NovaRoma I would like to recommend this article for discussion as i believe its a publicity stunt for the authors upcoming 'documentary' and soon to be released holywood adaptation of Rosemary Sutcliff's book.
See what you think.
I apologise if the link hasn't worked
Headlines in the Daily Mail proclaim that the disappearance of the Ninth has
been solved. Rather convenient, given that it is now less than a month before
the first screenings of the film here.
Story is attached.
I recommend the comments
So, here is the piece from the Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1358700/As-Hollywood-film-dramati\\
ses-ancient-tale-2-000-year-riddle-Romes-lost-Ninth-Legion-solved-last.html
[url=http://]
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Nathan Ross - 03-05-2011
Not this again!
A better link: Daily Mail - Lost Ninth Legion Riddle solved
'Publicity stunt' might be a polite way of describing it - otherwise lazy journalism and straightforward cynical misleading of the public would do (but this is the Daily Mail!)
The 'group of experts' mentioned in the article are actually two men, one of them a filmmaker and not an 'expert' at all. And the 'dramatic new evidence' is a tombstone found 17 years ago recording a war at some point, somewhere. Is that drama?
Here's the actual text of the inscription (RIB 3364) - judge for yourself:
Quote: D(is) [M(anibus)] / T(itus) Ann[ius - f(ilius) ---] / centur[io leg(ionis) --- praepositus coh(ortis) I] / Tungr[orum |(milliaria) annorum --- stipen]/diorum [--- cecidi]/t inbell[o! --- inter]/fectus [T(itus) Annius?] / fil(ius) et Arc[---] / h(eredes) e[x testament(o)? fec(erunt)]
hock: Meanwhile, there's already a withering response to this article on the Antoninus Pius blog:
Why History should not be written by Filmmakers
- Nathan
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Matthew Amt - 03-05-2011
Ave!
Pretty sure this has already been discussed, so you might find other topics here with a search. Basically the article is utter garbage from beginning to end. The word "research" is rather bizarrely misused to mean "dragged up some very old incredible leaps in illogic and added our own drug-induced hallucinations to it". One of the older threads should have a link to a blog that explains the actual story quite clearly.
Sorry to sound so harsh, not meaning to be taking it out on *you*! Just don't believe anything that claims to be "history" in a publication like that. And remember that EVERYthing in a movie is WRONG!
Vale,
Matthew
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Vincula - 03-05-2011
Quote:One of the older threads should have a link to a blog that explains the actual story quite clearly.Is it this one: http://antoninuspius.blogspot.com/
I have gotten a strange message from Paullus Scipio dis-crediting this blog but it is still my favorite.
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Crispvs - 03-06-2011
Well, we all know that there are at least two people here on RAT who have absolutely no love for each other and waste little time and much space in expressing this. I read the comment too and I must say that I was surprised. Whether or not it is true though, I would never take any such comment from one half of a constantly bickering duo against the other (whether here on RAT or anywhere else) without quite a large pinch of salt.
Anyway that was OT
Back on topic, I so often wish I could take a sythe to these filmic abominations, but on a more (perhaps vainly) hopeful front I have often wondered whether it might be possible to institute some sort of informed panel to give supposedly historical films an accuracy rating, with five stars being photographically accurate, four being a damn good effort and so on, going down to one star, which might be the recent 'King Arthur' film or almost anything made in Italy. Such a rating would not affect the excitement of a film or the quality of the writing but at least it might show those who cared to take any notice either that not everything they see in films is true or that in some cases we really do know what things were like. Does anyone know any members of BAFTA or the 'Academy'?:roll:
On a slightly more realistic level, I wonder if letter writing campaigns to editors every time such lazy journalism is spotted might have any influence.
Crispvs
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - mcbishop - 03-06-2011
Quote:Back on topic, I so often wish I could take a sythe to these filmic abominations, but on a more (perhaps vainly) hopeful front I have often wondered whether it might be possible to institute some sort of informed panel to give supposedly historical films an accuracy rating, with five stars being photographically accurate, four being a damn good effort and so on, going down to one star, which might be the recent 'King Arthur' film or almost anything made in Italy. Such a rating would not affect the excitement of a film or the quality of the writing but at least it might show those who cared to take any notice either that not everything they see in films is true or that in some cases we really do know what things were like. Does anyone know any members of BAFTA or the 'Academy'?:roll:
It's a film and films do what films do (think scorpions and frogs). They occasionally resemble reality, but that is accidental and unrelated to their own internal rules about plot, character, and the need to manifest directors' strange obsessions. Accuracy, as such, is an irrelevance. Anyway, how do you portray Eagle of the Ninth in a movie when Rosemary Sutcliff has Marcus' 'cohort of leather-clad auxiliaries on the road today'? Everybody knows there was no such thing as leather armour :lol: so film-makers would be damned if they did depict it and damned if they didn't (although a canny costume designer, clutching a copy of Gansser-Burckhardt, might make them wear leather clothing)!
Quote:On a slightly more realistic level, I wonder if letter writing campaigns to editors every time such lazy journalism is spotted might have any influence.
Doubt it will have much effect on the Daily Mail (non-UK members unfamiliar with this august journal might need to see this in-depth, learned critique of their style and methodology). I think I'd better go and wash my hands now...
Mike Bishop
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Crispvs - 03-07-2011
Hmmm. As an occasional writer of corrective letters to both the Daily Mail and its equally informative compatriot the Daily Express, I would tend to agree that individual letters are easy to throw into the waste paper bin. I am not so convinced that massed letter writing campaigns would be so easy to ignore though. I recall when I was a student, as a protest against cuts in a well known popular television comedy in order to insert more advertising, several thousand of us wrote short letters of protest and sent them to Television New Zealand. The series was re-screened three months later in its entirety. Of course, the change in heart may also have had something to do with the fact that each student wrapped his or her letter around a turnip before sending both to TVNZ.:wink:
Crispvs
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Nathan Ross - 03-16-2011
Seems you can't keep a good myth down... Another article today:
BBC: Ninth Legion's Mysterious Loss
Quote:The historians have dissented, theorising that the Ninth did not disappear in Britain at all, arguing both book and film are both wrong...
But, contrary to this view, there is not one shred of evidence that the Ninth were ever taken out of Britain. It's just a guess which, over time, has taken on a sheen of cast iron certainty. Three stamped tiles bearing the unit number of the Ninth found at Nijmegen, in the Netherlands, have been used to support the idea of transfer from Britain.
But these all seem to date to the 80s AD, when detachments of the Ninth were indeed on the Rhine fighting Germanic tribes. They do not prove that the Ninth left Britain for good...
It would seem that Sutcliff was right after all.
There's no indication of who wrote this article, or what qualification they might have to so blithely dismiss historical evidence... :evil:
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Robert Vermaat - 03-16-2011
Hi Nathan,
Quote:There's no indication of who wrote this article, or what qualification they might have to so blithely dismiss historical evidence... :evil:In your indignation, you did not reach the bottom of the page. Understandable.
However, the 'article' is signed:
Dr Miles Russell is a senior lecturer in Prehistoric and Roman Archaeology at Bournemouth University
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Nathan Ross - 03-16-2011
Quote:In your indignation, you did not reach the bottom of the page. Understandable.
However, the 'article' is signed:
Dr Miles Russell is a senior lecturer in Prehistoric and Roman Archaeology at Bournemouth University
Amazing! I'm fairly sure that when I first looked at the article just over two hours ago, neither the 'signature' nor the header were there! :?
I was assuming that some enterprising person from the 'Eagle' (film) publicity department had written the piece, actually... and was just preparing to fulminate against the BBC for providing free puff for Hollywood!
Dr Russell has contributed to debate on this board in the past, and while I appreciate his reservations about certain theories concerning the ninth legion, I'm not sure that the tone of the article ("not one shred of evidence... a sheen of cast iron certainty") adds much to popular understanding of historical interpretation...
- Nathan
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Crispvs - 03-16-2011
Hmmm, when I was at university senior lecturer positions normally required a fair degree of knowledge and scholarship. It seems they are going cheap at Bournemouth 'University'.
Or perhaps someone telephoned him and misrepresented his reply to fit with their own opinion.
I notice that there is no opportunity to leave comments under the piece.:evil:
Crispvs
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Occulus - 03-16-2011
Nathan wrote:
"Amazing! I'm fairly sure that when I first looked at the article just over two hours ago, neither the 'signature' nor the header were there!"
It's perfectly possible.
BBC articles are edited and mistakes are changed without comment. The same thing happened to my brother when he pointed out a mistake a few weeks ago. A matter of hours later the error had been changed with no sign that it had ever been made.
I still think the article's writer has misread some evidence, and ignored others to make his point.
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Nathan Ross - 03-16-2011
Quote:Or perhaps someone telephoned him and misrepresented his reply to fit with their own opinion.
Quite possible. As far as I remember, Dr Russell was quite dubious of the 'wiped out by Caledonians' theory himself.
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - Robert Vermaat - 03-16-2011
Hi Sion,
Quote:I still think the article's writer has misread some evidence, and ignored others to make his point.That's quite an understatement. In fact, he's turning things around: it was the 'legend' of the Ninth disappearing in Scotland which became a fact over the years, without a shred of evidence. Dr Miles wants us to believe that "It's just a guess which, over time, has taken on a sheen of cast iron certainty". But what is he offering in return as evidence? Nothing.
In fact he's wrong on more facts. According to Dr Miles, the historians claim about the Ninth is that "sometime before AD 160, they were wiped in out in a war against the Persians.". Of course, that should be 'the Parthians', but who paying attention to detail, really?
Re: Article on the L. IX Hispana (Factual????) - PhilusEstilius - 03-16-2011
It has been said that the last evidence of the Ninth comes from tiles dated to 108 AD at Eboracum, but how about the other stamped tiles of the Ninth in Carlisle that were found on another frontier line known as the 255 degree line discovered by the late Raymond Selkirk.