Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Reenactment (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=5) +--- Forum: Greek Re-Enactment & Reconstruction (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=32) +--- Thread: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? (/showthread.php?tid=17651)

Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Gregory J. Liebau - 10-10-2010 Hello, I am planning on making a pilos helmet over the holidays as my first venture into metal armoring. I have been inspired to take up this project by the simplicity of the design and the fact that such a helmet is useful for interpretation over a number of decades in the late 5th and early 4th centuries BC. So, it seems like a great place to start! I must admit that I am fond of crests, though, and would also like to be able to make a crest box and crest for this helmet in the Greek fashion. I am sure I have seen at least one pottery illustration depicting a hoplite wearing a pilos helmet with a crest... But for the life of me, I cannot seem to locate that image or any other showing such a thing. If there is any contemporary art showing crested pilos helmets, I would appreciate having it linked for me to use as a resource! Thank you for your help. Cheers! -Gregory Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - barcid - 10-10-2010 [attachment=2:3927f9hy]<!-- ia2 HMS09.jpg<!-- ia2 [/attachment:3927f9hy][attachment=1:3927f9hy]<!-- ia1 conical01[1].jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:3927f9hy][attachment=0:3927f9hy]<!-- ia0 conical02[1].jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:3927f9hy] a start for you :wink: Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-10-2010 Here's another one from the Nereid monument. Later i'll find more depictions on vases if you want. Khaire Giannis Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Gregory J. Liebau - 10-10-2010 Thanks guys, Exactly the kinda' stuff I was looking for. Barcid, are the first helmet and the first picture you posted both Greek examples? The crest style looks Etruscan to me, but that's only based on my loose knowledge of the subject. Additional pottery evidence would be great, Giannis, but take your time... By the way, we're just about the same age. Do you have Facebook? I really like your stuff, and would love to pick your brain sometimes regarding some of this stuff. I haven't been into hoplite warfare since high school, and getting back into it I realize that my knowledge of nuances in dress and armament over the course of various decades is spotty, at best! Cheers. -Gregory Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - barcid - 10-11-2010 Hi Gregory ,the first image is a "Hellenic" helm from the Guttmann collection ,the other images are from southern italian frescos i believe ,also my pilos another variation ,Hellenic mid 4th cent.bc [attachment=0:rg3lixn7]<!-- ia0 pilos.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:rg3lixn7] Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-11-2010 Here are some more vases.These are all greek, but the crested pilos is more common on italic vases,such as those Barcid posted. The rule about conical helmets was the same as in generally all other things: Fashions originated in mainland Greece and they were always kept more conservative than in the colonies that adopted them. So the conical helmet in Italy often had high crests and additional metal or real feathers,neck guards and cheek pieces. In Greece and Asia Minor they usually had a common crest like all other helmets. The Nereid monument that i posted above shows a commander or general having a tripple crest on his pilos,whereas all the others have a single crest,as you can see. There is a later macedonian coin which shows a short transverse crest with long tails on either side. Khaire Giannis EDIT: the third picture down is of course italic and not greek. Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Gregory J. Liebau - 10-11-2010 Thank you guys. Giannis, the second vase image you posted is the one I remember seeing, and I appreciate you attaching it to your post. I was hoping to see evidence of a crest in just this traditional fashion, with the elongated box and fullness of the crest. Cheers! -Gregory Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - PMBardunias - 10-12-2010 This might help. The first two methods of crest attachment are from piloi in the Guttman collection and the statuette is from the museum at Sparta. Re: Greek Pilos Helmets with Crests? - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-12-2010 Paul,i believe the pilos to the right had only feather holders and the loop in the top was not for a crest. This is because in many vases the soft pilos has a loop in the top,from which it is often hung from a wall or from a finger. So i fint it probable that this loop at the top is just the leather or other organic matterial loop transferred into its bronze version. Khaire Giannis