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+--- Thread: Germanic Foederati (/showthread.php?tid=16883)
Germanic Foederati - Adrian Petersson - 05-22-2010
We're going to be putting together a Foederati group, of the kind that took part in Trajanus' wars in Dacia, and i am wondering if anyone has any opinions on how we should be dressed and equipped? We're already putting kit together, since we have what we think is a fair idea of what we're doing, but it never hurts to hear what other people think
Re: Germanic Foederati - ArthuroftheBritons - 05-25-2010
Foederati is a Late Roman term, perhaps what you're thinking of is the Auxilia.
Re: Germanic Foederati - Paullus Scipio - 05-25-2010
Perhaps the term 'numerus' would be the appropriate one for the period. One assumes you will be guided largely by Trajan's column depictions of 'allied' Germans, with further input from Tacitus' descriptions, backed up by relevant archaeological finds?
Re: Germanic Foederati - Adrian Petersson - 05-26-2010
Quote:Foederati is a Late Roman term, perhaps what you're thinking of is the Auxilia.No. Nicholas, i was not thinking of auxiliaries. If i had been thinking of auxiliaries, i would have written on another thread, and asked about auxiliaries. Frankly, i find your comment insulting to my intelligence.
And can you provide me with proof that it is a late roman term, or is that an opinion?
I vaguely remember the term 'numerus', but i didn't connect it with this, because i understood the term 'foederati' to mean 'bound by treaty', which i assume the Germanic warriors did in tribal groups for the Dacian campaign?
//Adrian
Re: Germanic Foederati - Medicus matt - 05-27-2010
Quote:And can you provide me with proof that it is a late roman term, or is that an opinion?
I vaguely remember the term 'numerus', but i didn't connect it with this, because i understood the term 'foederati' to mean 'bound by treaty', which i assume the Germanic warriors did in tribal groups for the Dacian campaign?
//Adrian
I think you're right Adrian, the term refers to any non-Roman group (be it tribe or entire nation) that was tied to Rome by a treaty of mutual assistance and was certainly in use from the late Republican period onwards.
The depiction of germanic foederati on Trajan's column seems fairly standardised (long hair, beard, naked torso, barefoot, armed with big sticks etc) but maybe that's just to emphasise their 'barbarity' to the Roman audience?
Re: Germanic Foederati - Adrian Petersson - 05-28-2010
I had understood TC to have been created with, shall we say, "artistic licence", i.e each type of soldier is represented artistically, rather than accurately, and in a very standardised manner, which of course gave rise to all those lovely old misconceptions, so beloved of Hollywood and some reenactors. :lol:
So far we've looked at various British groups for inspiration on clothing...The Vicus being an obvious example. We didn't think there would be much difference in the overall appearance of a Briton and a Germanic tribesman, although i am given to understand that the Germanics used a lot of patterned material, cheques/stripes and so on. Anyone got an opinion on whether this is accurate or not? For 'basic tribesman', we're going to go with thorsbjerg kit, and of course, appropriate footwear, armament consisting of a shield (all the usual shapes) and a spear, or a bow. Armour, helmets, and swords are going to be few, and we are also going to use some roman army kit, as we believe was the practice in Germanic society.
I don't doubt for a minute that the term foederati is much more common in the later period, i just think it's a bit of a reenactor-ism to only use it in that context.
//Adrian
Re: Germanic Foederati - ArthuroftheBritons - 05-28-2010
Stripes on tunics, very Germanic, but I'm almost sure that checks were a Celtic thing. I'm probably wrong. Perhaps you should get a few Coolus helmets? Outdated for the time but isn't that likely the stuff that the allied tribes were getting as hand-me-down equipment?
Re: Germanic Foederati - Paullus Scipio - 05-29-2010
It would seem that checks etc did exist among the German tribes, as one might expect ( there are surviving examples of cloaks etc) - See "Ancient Warfare" magazine Special Issue 2009, 'The Varian Disaster' for this and some excellent reconstructions of Germanic warriors......
Re: Germanic Foederati - Alanus - 05-30-2010
Correct amundo!
Yes, "checks" (not American Express) existed throughout the then-known world and even beyond. I portray a Roxolanus and wear a tartan scarve as neck protection from my chain mail. Tweeds identical to those found at Halstadtt have been recovered from pre-Tokarian graves in the Takla Makan. Today, in northwestern China, tartan tweeds are still being worn. I have a nice photo of several "Celtic" tweeds hanging from a votive tree at an Issyk Kul sacred spring in Kyrgazstan. All of these must reflect cultural borrowing from the Celts and Tokarians; and so the Germans, Sarmatians, Chinese, and Kyrgaz, likewise acquired checked weaves from their neighbors.
Re: Germanic Foederati - Folkert van Wijk - 05-31-2010
Yes indeed, I think it's almost undoable to determine any differense in Germanic versus Celtic clothing.
Ever sins there's even lesser direct evidence for Celtic clothing then for Germanic.
My point of view is that the Northern Bogfinds are a pretty desent start to begin with wether depicting Late Celts or Germanics...
The other thing would be sculptural abd written inderect evidense, but that offcourse we new allready...
thurder I would say go easy on the checked clothes I just resently learned (also here) that the plain versus checked/striped clothing is something like fifty fifty. Being aproximatly checked 40 and stiped 10 persend more or less, give or take....
Then comes the hard part if you want to be verry exact try to find or let somebody make checked or striped cloths only made up from two colores... (I know this will disapoint a lot of Celtic/Germanic reenactors including me) Because I belief checked cloth made up from more then 2 colores is very rare...
If somebody can proof me wrong or is abble to back me up on this, please do...
Re: Germanic Foederati - Alanus - 06-01-2010
I think you may be correct. Another point is to make sure the colors are natural and subdued, not bright. Such weaves are available in the "ancient tartans," as oposed to the modern ones. I wear a checked scarve and that's it. My tunic and bracae are solid colors. Another way to go, popular in the ancient world, would be just checked tweed trousers with everything else solid.
Re: Germanic Foederati - Adrian Petersson - 06-01-2010
Quote:. Perhaps you should get a few Coolus helmets? Outdated for the time but isn't that likely the stuff that the allied tribes were getting as hand-me-down equipment?That sounds like an excellent idea, and more or less what i was thinking of!
Re: Germanic Foederati - Adrian Petersson - 06-01-2010
oh, and for anyone that hasn't done so yet....BUY STUFF FROM ARMAMENTARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I got my carbatinae from Peronis today. Usual excellent and reliable service. 8)
Re: Germanic Foederati - Alanus - 07-19-2010
Quote:
Then comes the hard part if you want to be verry exact try to find or let somebody make checked or striped cloths only made up from two colores... (I know this will disapoint a lot of Celtic/Germanic reenactors including me) Because I belief checked cloth made up from more then 2 colores is very rare...
If somebody can proof me wrong or is abble to back me up on this, please do...
I think you're correct. Since they were tweeds, the two colors produce three shades. I'm thinking of the Elizabeth Barber's Mummies of Urumchi, and the the burial materials of the Hotchdorf Prince (including a blanket sprinkled with swastikas).