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+--- Thread: Cloak buttons/any buttons (/showthread.php?tid=16720)
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-18-2010
I would like to point at this discussion:
link from old RAT
I still have the impression that it is far from sure that these objects were used for cloaks at all.... ^^
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - PhilusEstilius - 04-18-2010
I very much have the impression that these objects are indeed for clothing and not used at all for sword suspension.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-18-2010
An impression doesn´t help, Brian. They were certainly found in context with sword belts / baldrics.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-18-2010
Quote:An impression doesn´t help, Brian. They were certainly found in context with sword belts / baldrics.What era?
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-19-2010
Byron, it´s all in the link above. There´s actually more, meanwhile, if I find time I´ll post it.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-19-2010
I do recall that thread, but I was never 100% convinced that the info conlusively ruled out cloaks.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-19-2010
No, it doesn´t rule out cloaks, but we have no sound archeological evidence that theses objects were used for cloaks, whereas we do have evidence that they were used for belts.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - PhilusEstilius - 04-19-2010
I think that an explanation of the established evidence for these things being used on swords and not on clothing needs very much to be defined, there is of course evidence that some have been found along with swords but no leatherwork with them to verify such a conclusion.
There are many cases on Roman coins showing Emperors wearing cloaks with the same type of round fasteners as the two I have, and for all the other types in my collection I can assure anyone they would not be large enough nor indeed have the strength to support a sword.
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-19-2010
Brian,
there is one such find with a leather belt from Vindonissa, plus there are two very small ones from Idria pri Baci, which belonged to a belt. There are also loads of small ones from "Celtic" context. How can you identify these objects on coins, I wonder? arent´t the depictions on coins a bit too small to safely identify these objects on them?
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - PhilusEstilius - 04-19-2010
Christian.
There are coins that show many Emperors wearing cloaks with the disc of these clothes fasteners showing very clearly, like this replica of one that I have in my collection.
http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... hal069.jpg
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - M. Demetrius - 04-19-2010
Is the toggle end soldered onto the disc, or is it a single-piece casting?
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-19-2010
Brian,
how would you discern these from disc-fibulae?
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 04-19-2010
Those things could be used for a lot of functions.
There are clearly used as fasteners to hung cavalry pendants from harnesses, too.
Every use don't implies that could'nt be used for another use!!!
Is as if you asks for what we use a button now. Could be used for trousers for a pouch, for a shirt, etc...
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - M. Demetrius - 04-19-2010
I'm still stuck on the question that for garments, a proper buttonhole was from a later historical period, and that toggles/buttons were passed through a loop in the garment, made one way or another. Am I thinking wrongly again? :?
Re: Cloak buttons/any buttons - caiusbeerquitius - 04-19-2010
Quote:Every use don't implies that could'nt be used for another use!!!I completely agree :-) wink: