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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - 66kbm - 02-24-2013
Hi all
As much as i am uneducated in the respect of written accounts of said item, i must say that i am still working on why II AVG did not attend. The more i search the more i find out and the more to my defense, though thin, may at least show why non attendance occured.
Now i think i read a link regarding a cavalry unit for Cirencester..........thats II AVG territory for a start. I may be wrong.
Now if the whole of Britania was revolting, speculative, then the amount of Forts in the southwest along with the Fortress at Isca Dumnoniarium would have been "a tad busy"...no evidence exists but as we all know trhat prhase......absence of evidence...etc...but the sheer number of military instalations shows that the population was not "placid"...thats evidentual not literal.
Hopes this makes sense to all.
Kevin
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Nathan Ross - 02-25-2013
Quote:Dunstable... has two distinct flaws. Although it is set in a valley setting it clearly does not fit the description of the sides being like a “rampart” and if the army was placed at this point with Dunstable behind it the Icknield Way is behind the Roman army and consequently Brythonic forces from Thetford etc. could have attacked from the rear and the position can be outflanked.
Tacitus does not mention 'ramparts' - that's a misleading translation, as we discussed before. He just talks about a steep place. The Dunstable position has steep sides, compared to the local topography.
There's no evidence that there were alternative British forces on the Iknield Way - Boudica's army seems to have kept together. They could have split up and sent a force circling around to the north-east, but if the Britons had the capability to make these sort of long-distance strategic flanking marches, any position in south-east England would be vulnerable.
Quote:Fifteen miles away from St Albans, Akeman Street crosses the Icknield Way at Tring, one of the main ancient roadways and a direct route into or from the Iceni territory.
Yes - that's the same position you outlined some time ago, right? I still think it looks good.
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - 66kbm - 02-25-2013
@ Moi
Your favourite thread is still running.
Time to get your teeth into it.....know what i mean..... :evil:
Kevin...or is it
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Theoderic - 02-25-2013
Nathan Ross wrote:
There's no evidence that there were alternative British forces on the Iknield Way - Boudica's army seems to have kept together. They could have split up and sent a force circling around to the north-east, but if the Britons had the capability to make these sort of long-distance strategic flanking marches, any position in south-east England would be vulnerable.
Absoloutely - the interesting point about the site at Tring is that even if it is encircled it is easily defended and also acts as a springboard. On the one side that the position might be slightly vulnerable you have one of the sections of Grimms Ditch....
Kind Regards - Deryk
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Renatus - 03-08-2013
In the latest issue of Ancient Warfare (VI.6), there is an article by Gareth Williams on the Boudican Revolt. The main theme is an attempt to argue that there was a degree of strategic planning behind the uprising. The treatment of the revolt itself, therefore, is rather sketchy and disappointing. He accepts without question that Paulinus withdrew up Watling Street and states, "The generally accepted site of the battle is a gorge close to the vexillation fortress at Mancetter." He clearly had not been reading this thread! He does acknowledge, however, that the site has topographical problems. On the whole, I was not impressed.
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Nathan Ross - 03-08-2013
Quote:"The generally accepted site of the battle is a gorge close to the vexillation fortress at Mancetter."
Generally accepted by whom, I wonder? I don't think anybody's contributed a defence of the site here in the last few years!
I notice that the same issue has an article about the 'siege' of Maiden Castle, which I believe has also been fairly well debunked in recent decades...
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - John1 - 03-08-2013
"The generally accepted site of the battle is a gorge close to the vexillation fortress at Mancetter."
I think this is an accurate statement, in the "In Our Time" piece that started the thread, Richard Hingley was pointing there, as too was Betany Hughes in her piece and Mark Corby in his, more recently Nic Fields based his Osprey book on it, although he was clear there were problems and other worthy candidates.
So the Mancetter dogma is still "generally accepted" and I think that's what makes this debate of ours so compelling. We all share a common negative position, in so far as we don't find the accepted site credible, but as yet we have no common positive position because we can't agree on sites, strategies or even time lines. The thread is all the more richer for this, but we all KNOW one day Mancetter and it's disciples will have to reverse their position, or will they. :dizzy:
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Vindex - 03-08-2013
I think that provides an almost fitting conclusion to this thread.... :evil:
<bark, bark, bark>...What's that Lassie?...There's a pig flying past the window???? :whistle:
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - John1 - 03-17-2013
errrm.... sorry Moi. This could be the end though, it looks like Mancetter is back at the head of the pack, shall we all do this face to face in Atherstone in June?
[attachment=6712]ConferenceSavetheDate.pdf[/attachment]
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - John1 - 03-17-2013
errrm.... sorry Moi. This could be the end though, it looks like Mancetter is back at the head of the pack, shall we all do this face to face in Warwick in June?
[attachment=6713]ConferenceSavetheDate.jpg[/attachment]
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Renatus - 03-17-2013
Do you think my blood pressure could stand it?
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - John1 - 03-17-2013
Hopefully the Profs Aldhouse-Green and Hingley will move a beyond their recorded performances with Melvyn Bragg, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r7lr9
they probably don't even know that show spawned the thread of doom, although Steve and Kerry from the thread will be performing in the panel discussion.
If they have significant new stuff on Mancetter than it could actually relieve our mutual blood pressure not to mention leave us finding a new hobby.
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Theoderic - 03-17-2013
I remember hearing the original broadcast and feeling a little disappointed in the content.
Having listened to it again after the discussions on this thread I feel that this is even more the case.
I am however tempted to go to the event especially if they have convincing evidence to back up Mancetter as a site but in comparison to Dunstable, Church Stowe or Wendover Woods at Tring on the face of it they have a lot to prove.
Of course the opposition may also have good arguments!
Kind Regards- Deryk
(As John said perhaps it will be a time to find another hobby!)
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Vindex - 03-18-2013
Well, on the plus side it would give us an opportunity to meet up.
On the negative, it's a long way to go to continue the argument and since the whole thread was caused by HUGE discussion of the original programme and Steve's approach not finding universal support either, I think I'll give it a miss.
But thank you for bringing it to our attention John
mile:
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - Nathan Ross - 03-18-2013
Quote:Of course the opposition may also have good arguments!
That depends on whether there is any! It does seem to be presented as a bit of foregone conclusion, and two of the 'alternative hypotheses' (John Waite's High Cross and Kerry Sullivan's Clifton) are in the west Midlands area anyway and so share many of the problems of Mancetter. That leaves Steve Kaye as a lone voice crying in the wilderness of the Kennett Valley (if he's sticking to that one).
I doubt there's any new evidence as such - 'further careful consideration' doesn't sound like an academic euphemism for a smoking gun.
It would be sort of fun to attend (although a bit out of the way). I'd be intrigued to see how they get around the various difficulties with the Webster idea that we've been discussing here over the years. However, the temptation to sit at the back seething and mumbling might be too overwhelming...