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+--- Thread: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found (/showthread.php?tid=16033)
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2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs - 11-09-2009
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33791672/ns ... ?GT1=43001
I just saw this moments ago. Hope it's not been posted before.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-09-2009
Pretty amazing!
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Sean Manning - 11-10-2009
I saw a documentary about that a few years ago. It would be very cool if they're right.
Its annoying that the finds were taken by the Ministry of Antiquities and ignored. But the Egyptian government seems to prefer to publicize periods when Egypt was independent, especially the Bronze Age which draws tourists.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Epictetus - 11-10-2009
That is quite interesting. Lets hope some more work will be done by professionals and a real survey is done. That picture the brothers provided looks rather unrealistic.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Jona Lendering - 11-10-2009
Quote:Its annoying that the finds were taken by the Ministry of Antiquities and ignored. But the Egyptian government seems to prefer to publicize periods when Egypt was independent, especially the Bronze Age which draws tourists.Yes, indeed. If you go to the Cairo museum, there's a lot d.XVIII, but the Persian age gets almost nothing. Most irritating. The Persians seem to be the victim anywhere; in Ankara, in the museum of Anatolian Civilizations (the plural is part of the museum's mission, which stresses that Turkey has always had many cultures), there are only a couple of objects from the Persian age. And in Amman, the total number of Persian age objects is exactly three.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Iagoba - 11-10-2009
More detailed article:
[url:2yy11az8]http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/cambyses-army-remains-sahara.html[/url]
Seems that it's about the episode of Herodotus book III, part XXVI (althrough it comes from a bit earlier in the book):
Quote:The men sent to attack the Ammonians, started from Thebes, having guides with them, and may be clearly traced as far as the city Oasis, which is inhabited by Samians, said to be of the tribe Aeschrionia. The place is distant from Thebes seven days' journey across the sand, and is called in our tongue "the Island of the Blessed." Thus far the army is known to have made its way; but thenceforth nothing is to be heard of them, except what the Ammonians, and those who get their knowledge from them, report. It is certain they neither reached the Ammonians, nor even came back to Egypt. Further than this, the Ammonians relate as follows:- That the Persians set forth from Oasis across the sand, and had reached about half way between that place and themselves when, as they were at their midday meal, a wind arose from the south, strong and deadly, bringing with it vast columns of whirling sand, which entirely covered up the troops and caused them wholly to disappear. Thus, according to the Ammonians, did it fare with this army.
That "as they were at their midday meal" remembered me the start of "the life of Brian"'s "about tea time" :mrgreen:
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - john m roberts - 11-10-2009
I hope this gets further study. I'd like to believe that this is the famous lost Persian army, but I want to see more evidence. That desert has swallowed countless caravans and expeditions so analysis of period artifacts should show if it's even from the right era. I know! Let's start a rumor that the army was carrying a huge treasure with it! that should get some action going.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Iagoba - 11-11-2009
Video (in English) here:
[url:227c4lzg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ENizFYf96Y[/url]
Must be seen! map, artifacts and more.
hock: Source (in Spanish):
[url:227c4lzg]http://foroterraeantiqvae.ning.com/profiles/blogs/localizado-el-ejercito-de[/url]
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Jona Lendering - 11-13-2009
I have been thinking about it, but I do not believe a word of it:
[url:2mpkk1nd]http://rambambashi.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/cambyses-not-so-lost-army/[/url]
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Epictetus - 11-13-2009
Yes, I think it is prudent to remain doubtful. I was a bit worried when I saw they were announcing their information at an archeaological movie festival.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Paullus Scipio - 11-13-2009
Jona wrote:
Quote: have been thinking about it, but I do not believe a word of it:
Well, as far as one can tell looking at the artifacts in the documentary ( which is why it came from an archaeological film festival ! ), they are consistent with Achmaenid times, and the arrowheads certainly appear to be of Persian type, but your point is well made, Jona, that they could be remains from any old caravan on its way to Siwa during the period of the Achmaenid conquest, and not necessarily a 'historical event'. Of course, if thousands of bones did turn up in the area that would narrow it down considerably..... :wink:
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Jona Lendering - 11-13-2009
Quote: Of course, if thousands of bones did turn up in the area that would narrow it down considerably..... :wink:Only if the finds can be dated more precisely than "Achaemenid", which is, in Egypt, the late sixth and entire fifth century.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Paullus Scipio - 11-13-2009
....my point being that not many Persian armies numbering in the thousands set off for Siwa during that period.....
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Jona Lendering - 11-13-2009
Quote:....my point being that not many Persian armies numbering in the thousands set off for Siwa during that period.....How do we know? We have some evidence for the conquest (Herodotus) and some evidence for the early reign of Darius (Behistun Inscription and Wedjahor-Resne statuette). There are some papyri and ostraca; there may have been more, but the Egyptian archaeologists are not very helpful in publishing them. A temple from the Persian period had been excavated at Kharga, suggesting that the Persians had at least one fort in the western desert. That's about it. There may have been numerous expeditions into the western desert about which we do not know.
The situation is comparable to that find of that third-century battlefield in Germany (this thread). Some people have tried to connect it to this or that known campaign, but most scholars believe it belongs to a Roman expedition that failed to reach our sources. Given the extreme paucity of (published) evidence for the Persian period in Egypt, I am extremely skeptical to identify archaeological remains with one particular expedition.
Re: 2,500 year old lost Persian army found - Epictetus - 11-13-2009
I believe there should be caution when trying to interpret an archaeological find using ancient texts. Someone finds bones and Persian artefacts and tries to find something in written sources to explain them being there at a particular place and time. This can lead to circular reasoning: the finds confirm Herodotus while Herodotus confirms the finds.
I think T.J. Cornell puts it well:
Quote:Almost all archaeological ‘confirmations’ are circular in this sense, and many are equally illusory. The recently reported discovery of a wall, perhaps dating from the eight century BC, on the north-eastern slopes of the Palatine might conceivably form part of the fortification settlement on that hill; but it does not confirm any ancient tradition, nor does it make Romulus any less legendary – any more than finds of bronze-age pottery can prove the reality of Aeneas or Evander. These examples only serve to prove the truth of the old saying, that if you ask a silly question, you get a silly answer.