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+--- Thread: Interested in Roman Riding? (/showthread.php?tid=15626)
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-15-2011
Pretty pony Jurjen! Nice to see the saddle fitting without too much padding either. Makes you closer to the horse.
May I ask you about the noseband? It looks like a modern bosal.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - jvrjenivs - 01-15-2011
Quote:Pretty pony Jurjen! Nice to see the saddle fitting without too much padding either. Makes you closer to the horse.
May I ask you about the noseband? It looks like a modern bosal.
Yeah, I'm happy about that, too. The headpiece is a modern briddle-less one. Don't know what kind, sorry. It's just to one that horse is normally used to, as it isn't my own horse. We're working on 'historical' ones, though, which will be the next thing to improve. It's working fine this way for now, to get the horse used to the saddles, armour, weaponry, etc.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - M. Demetrius - 01-15-2011
It's good to see horses that don't require the mouth bit. I can't imagine that being a good thing for the horse's teeth. (as an aside, that's a fairly modern thing, isn't it? the across the tongue bit?)
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-15-2011
Quote:It's good to see horses that don't require the mouth bit. I can't imagine that being a good thing for the horse's teeth. (as an aside, that's a fairly modern thing, isn't it? the across the tongue bit?)
The bit isn't that modern. A 2009 study proved the domestication of the horse becasue of wear on the teeth from a bit (5000BC). See here for a brief idea of the research:
http://archaeology.about.com/od/domesti ... horses.htm
It is one of my cunning theories. Modern horses need and certainly benefit from dentistry; from skeletal evidence the horse in the ancient world did not have this service. So what look to be very severe bits are actually not that bad as the horse's teeth create some serious problems for the rider to over come. As a horse's teeth wear they produce some serious sharp edges which cut into the tongue and the side of the mouth as much as any "severe" bit (cf Hyland).
If, however, you can take the bit out of the mouth and still control the horse from poll pressure (ie a cantilever effect from the nose to the top of the head) then it should be a lot more comnfortable for everyone, particularly the horse. This is where the bridle such as Titus Bassus' horse is wearing become really interesting from my point of view.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-15-2011
Quote: [
This is where the bridle such as Titus Bassus' horse is wearing become really interesting from my point of view.
Any good images of this? i can only find rather small ones.. :?
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-16-2011
Quote:Vindex:t0ia47uc Wrote:[
This is where the bridle such as Titus Bassus' horse is wearing become really interesting from my point of view.
Any good images of this? i can only find rather small ones.. :?
Sadly not my own - it is another on my list!
The photographs in Bishop's Cavalry Equipment article are the best ones which show that although the horse may have a bit in it's mouth it is not an obvious one, and the "hackamore" is clearly shown. (Don't like the term hackamore used in this context as it isn't strictly accurate).
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - John Conyard - 01-16-2011
Various metal hackamore have been discovered, yet many more could have been made of leather or even dried grass. A simple hackamore would have no bit, and the 1st century tombstone found in 2005 in Lancaster seems to show a bitless bridle. {Bull S.B. (2007) Triumphant Rider, The Lancaster Roman Cavalry Tombstone (Lancaster 2007)}. This system is useful for young horses, or those with sensitive mouths, but is generally not associated with Romans. Today metal hackamores could be covered with sheepskin for the horse’s comfort, and it is possible that some Roman hackamores would have been covered also.
Yesterday we tried some new saddles on the horses, made sure a chamfron fitted, and measured up a horse for a new Roman bridle and head collar. The new breaching straps are all a little small. East Yorkshire wasn't completely underwater, and the cold wind and rain made a change from snow and ice. It was fun and relaxed. I suspect Cookie will be my horse this season. I think horse archery will be fine, the horse is very nervous and the rest will take time.
Jurjen, I recommend some boots to keep you out of the mud. I recommend riding wellies, tight trousers which don't get snagged on the horns, and warm sensible clothing on top! Padded armour is great since you don't have to wash it.
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Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-16-2011
Quote: This system is useful for young horses, or those with sensitive mouths, but is generally not associated with Romans.
Could I ask you to explain that a little more please? What's the evidence? And why just young horses? The older the horse the worse the teeth (not modern horses of course - or rather I hope not).
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - John Conyard - 01-16-2011
Because we have various copper alloy hackamore from the archaeological record, and they are reproduced in all the relevant books. But alternative hackamores which would not leave an archaeological trace are not considered.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Ammianus - 01-16-2011
As John said a fun start to a season of much hard work, as always.
It was nice to be back in the saddle.
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Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-16-2011
Quote:Because we have various copper alloy hackamore from the archaeological record, and they are reproduced in all the relevant books. But alternative hackamores which would not leave an archaeological trace are not considered.
I appreciate that, of course; but excuse me for saying so, that didn't answer the question I asked with refernce to you comment about young horses and association with the Roman period.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-16-2011
Quote:As John said a fun start to a season of much hard work, as always.
It was nice to be back in the saddle.
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Looks like a happy start to the season for you! Hal looks happy too! (if a bit shaggy, lol)
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - John Conyard - 01-16-2011
I am sorry Vindex, I am not giving you the time you deserve. I answered in haste, but I hope I answered at least half your questions.
My experience of a bitless German hackamore comes from a young horse at the yard bought in the Doncaster sales a few years ago. He was a hunting cob, but his mouth was very sensitive from we suspected rough treatment. He was a little large for a Roman horse, but very stocky, so overall he looked "Roman". I rode him a couple of times in a German hackamore and he was very good. I felt he could do a show easily. He was put down as a possible, and kind of "left"on the bench". He was used for medieval and gunpowder shows and went back to a snaffle. He became fat and lazy, and he still is. A substitute horse to be used if we really have to. Hence my comment about young horses and sensitive mouths.
But Roman's are not generally associated with bitless hackamores, since we have all those nice copper alloy versions in the archaeological record. The idea of an American Indian riding with a bitless hackamore made of dried grass is fine. The idea of a Roman rider doing the same thing is not generally associated with the Roman period.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - Vindex - 01-16-2011
Quote:I am sorry Vindex, I am not giving you the time you deserve. I answered in haste, but I hope I answered at least half your questions.
My experience of a bitless German hackamore comes from a young horse at the yard bought in the Doncaster sales a few years ago. He was a hunting cob, but his mouth was very sensitive from we suspected rough treatment. He was a little large for a Roman horse, but very stocky, so overall he looked "Roman". I rode him a couple of times in a German hackamore and he was very good. I felt he could do a show easily. He was put down as a possible, and kind of "left"on the bench". He was used for medieval and gunpowder shows and went back to a snaffle. He became fat and lazy, and he still is. A substitute horse to be used if we really have to. Hence my comment about young horses and sensitive mouths.
But Roman's are not generally associated with bitless hackamores, since we have all those nice copper alloy versions in the archaeological record. The idea of an American Indian riding with a bitless hackamore made of dried grass is fine. The idea of a Roman rider doing the same thing is not generally associated with the Roman period.
Thank you.
Re: Interested in Roman Riding? - John Conyard - 01-19-2011
John wrote
"Cheers Jurjen,
Let us try and keep the discussions open on the forum to let everybody join in."
Jurjen wrote
"sure, we'll manage to do that
I've some more nice news comming up in some time. First an exam next week and some talk in a couple of weeks. Then it's back to my cavalry project "